Romel Reins 'fashionable' and bit related question

[paint_hunter]

Yup, Aces N Eights, the old Cow Palace out in Geneva was quite an experience. For those not familiar with the area, well, it wasn’t exactly in the greatest section of town. However, the joke was that one’s vehicle was always safe because the bad guys knew not to mess with them as the cowboys would go after them. Who knows if the rumor was true or not, but it made for a good story. At the start of the show, they used to drive the cattle from the train yard in the area up Geneva Avenue to the Cow Palace. There was a group of cowboys that escorted the herd. For the local area residents, I’d bet that this was the first/only time they could actually see their “steak or burger on the hoof.” Cotton Rosser was the stock contractor. There were “special days” at the Cow Palce such as “Cattlemens’ Day”. There was a H/J portion, Saddleseat (remember Michele McFarlane and her pinto Saddlebreds?), the Hackneys (Mrs William P Roth (Matson Shipping, owned the Filoli estate in Woodside and later given to the town of Woodside) was a big competitor), Western portion and rodeo which made for an interesting mixture of patrons. We used to go as a group on the final Sunday evening to watch the “Grand Prix” class, or what ever it was then called. I remember one year watching Susie Hutchinson win it on Bionic Woman, a bay Standardbred mare. Susie could sure ride and that mare could sure jump!

i realize my term of “fixed” cheek WRT to my bits is incorrect. They are actually “loose cheek” bits. The Santa Barbara cheek piece style was/is always my favorite. Most are made by Fleming, Garcia and a few other big names. Those folks were masters in silver work. Seeing as you live in Nevada, is Capriola’s saddlery in Elko still around? I was in the area years ago and stopped in to look at their bit collection.

Thanks telling me the name of my reins and for the walk down memory lane.

[Aces_N_Eights]

@paint hunter

Yup, Aces N Eights, the old Cow Palace out in Geneva was quite an experience. For those not familiar with the area, well, it wasn’t exactly in the greatest section of town. However, the joke was that one’s vehicle was always safe because the bad guys knew not to mess with them as the cowboys would go after them. Who knows if the rumor was true or not, but it made for a good story. At the start of the show, they used to drive the cattle from the train yard in the area up Geneva Avenue to the Cow Palace. There was a group of cowboys that escorted the herd. For the local area residents, I’d bet that this was the first/only time they could actually see their “steak or burger on the hoof.” Cotton Rosser was the stock contractor. There were “special days” at the Cow Palce such as “Cattlemens’ Day”. There was a H/J portion, Saddleseat (remember Michele McFarlane and her pinto Saddlebreds?), the Hackneys (Mrs William P Roth (Matson Shipping, owned the Filoli estate in Woodside and later given to the town of Woodside) was a big competitor), Western portion and rodeo which made for an interesting mixture of patrons. We used to go as a group on the final Sunday evening to watch the “Grand Prix” class, or what ever it was then called. I remember one year watching Susie Hutchinson win it on Bionic Woman, a bay Standardbred mare. Susie could sure ride and that mare could sure jump!

i realize my term of “fixed” cheek WRT to my bits is incorrect. They are actually “loose cheek” bits. The Santa Barbara cheek piece style was/is always my favorite. Most are made by Fleming, Garcia and a few other big names. Those folks were masters in silver work. Seeing as you live in Nevada, is Capriola’s saddlery in Elko still around? I was in the area years ago and stopped in to look at their bit collection.

Thanks telling me the name of my reins and for the walk down memory lane.

What great memories! I grew up quite a bit north of there so I only went a few times and by time I moved to Daly City the Cow Palace hay days were done.
My husband grew up in Rio Vista, Stockton, Lodi, Clements, he went every year to show sheep and partake in the fun. We were going through stuff in our storage unit not long ago, found some stuff he had saved, old motel keys and other memorabilia from his Cow Palace days. And you were right, the Cow Palace was not in the best part of town, he had a few stories!

I knew what you meant by fixed cheek The silver work always amazes me. Speaking of Fleming, I recently found one which I had never seen, rather than a California style bridle bit it is a short shanked Buster Welch style cutter. So I had to have it!

I live in Elko county and yes Cap’s is still open and going. I don’t go in there very often unless I need something. I love the goodies in there but a little out of my price range. The people who own it are wonderful too.

[BlueDrifter]

Why aren’t rein chains used more often now – for trail riders, for instance? They use water ties and slobber straps, but not chains…

[Aces_N_Eights]

@BlueDrifter

Why aren’t rein chains used more often now – for trail riders, for instance? They use water ties and slobber straps, but not chains…

Rein chains are reserved for romal reins. I really don’t know of many trail riders who prefer to use romals?

Slobber straps are the snaffle bit/mcCarty version of the rein chain. They are supposed to provide that slow signal, faster release and keep your horse hair out of the water.

Water ties are much like the leather connectors I mentioned before. They provide an easy on/off plus a weak spot in the case of a wreck without breaking the reins. Much cheaper and easier to replace a leather connector or water loop than a whole set of reins.

[paint_hunter]

@Aces N Eights

What great memories! I grew up quite a bit north of there so I only went a few times and by time I moved to Daly City the Cow Palace hay days were done.
My husband grew up in Rio Vista, Stockton, Lodi, Clements, he went every year to show sheep and partake in the fun. We were going through stuff in our storage unit not long ago, found some stuff he had saved, old motel keys and other memorabilia from his Cow Palace days. And you were right, the Cow Palace was not in the best part of town, he had a few stories!
.

Well, if you husband grew up in the area and showed sheep as a junior (?), then maybe both of you remember the photograph in the inside perimeter area of the Cow Palace with the 4-H girl holding her little lamb after it had won a ribbon and had gone through the sale, destined to become someone’s lambchops (actually that was the lamb’s name, now that I think about it). Tears are streaming down her face. The picture might have been published in the local newspaper. Anyways, the accompanying story to the enlarged picture told how someone, after seeing the picture with the obviously upset young girl, said “get me that lamb!” The lamb was bought back by this kind person and presented to the young lady to take back home as her pet. This was about 40-50 years ago. Every year when I went to the Cow Palace, I saw that picture and got tears in my eyes…(oh, wow, I have tears again in my eyes as I write this…).

Sorry for hijacking this thread a bit…

[skydy]

Garcia bits were very well made and used by the people I rode with (when I was a pup) that did the western disciplines. They were, and always have been, well made and expensive. https://capriolas.com/product-category/garcia-bits/

I agree, this thread certainly brings back memories… Those loud “cricket” mouthpieces… the horses really enjoyed making noise with them when standing in the line up.

[BlueDrifter]

@Aces N Eights

Rein chains are reserved for romal reins. I really don’t know of many trail riders who prefer to use romals?

Slobber straps are the snaffle bit/mcCarty version of the rein chain. They are supposed to provide that slow signal, faster release and keep your horse hair out of the water.

Water ties are much like the leather connectors I mentioned before. They provide an easy on/off plus a weak spot in the case of a wreck without breaking the reins. Much cheaper and easier to replace a leather connector or water loop than a whole set of reins.

I wonder why trail riders don’t use romal reins, as I read the discussion, I was thinking they might be more handy than roping reins, a quirt, and a rope halter under the bridle.

My water ties are made of thin yacht braid – do you think they would break? That is my one worry using rope reins and slobber straps and water ties – I don’t think anything would break.

[findeight]

Would kill for that set of Garcia Romal reins with silver ferrules and the Garcia frog mouth with solid dee shaped side I used to show in. Borrowed of course, that stuff was more then I paid for any of my first 3 horses. Had my own knock off browband headstall. And I both trail ride and showed Trail with Romal reins (leather button connectors). It’s what your used and works best. No right or wrong, just different.

Also never forget when Glen Gimple’s Blue Healer chewed the pineapple knot off a Garcia bosal at Santa Barbara …Flowers Show I think…

And I learned not to use rein/slobber chains. Romal or Split reins. They they can make noise banging against the bit, they add weight and if you are on a fussy horse or they shake their head? There’s a lot going on. I didn’t use Garcia’s or pricey silver trimmed knock offs for trail riding where the horse might take a drink, had a cheaper, less elegant pair.

BlueDrifter forgot to mention lead rope and dog leash for other Romal rein uses. Sure a Vaquero Riding the range could come up with others, remember, they traditionally carried a Riata not a much longer rope and that riata was a requirement on the saddles like the hobbles if you used Romal reins back when.

Reminds me…I had a hubcap bit, remember those?

[BlueDrifter]

Can you use romal reins with a snaffle?

Edit: looks like not so…looks like roping reins and finding leather bit connectors for me…

[findeight]

@BlueDrifter

Can you use romal reins with a snaffle?

Edit: looks like not so…looks like roping reins and finding leather bit connectors for me…

Yeah, but the connection between rein and bit ring leaves much to be desired, really need a wider and flatter buckle or loop on most of the snaffle designs. Romal is in the way too inkers you remove it. You can do it in a pinch but it’s awkward

The other problem is. Romal “reins” are actually one rein running to both sides of the bit with a loop in the middle where the Romal attaches. Not long enough to work two handed with a saddle horn and fork in the way.

Some might say they work fine but they are thinking of a broken mouth curb or " Western Snaffle" with shanks and a curb strap ridden one handed , not a snaffle. I tried roping reins with a snaffle, for what I was doing riding two handed, the fork and horn were in the way. YMMV.

[skydy]

Findeight, I sold my Garcia bit (25 years ago) used, for what I originally paid for it. They do hold their value. :yes: They were priced back then for about half of what they are now, still it was an expensive bit.

[BlueDrifter]

@findeight

Yeah, but the connection between rein and bit ring leaves much to be desired, really need a wider and flatter buckle or loop on most of the snaffle designs.

Interesting comment for me… am I understanding correctly, that you find a heavier (wider/flatter) bit connection is best for a snaffle?

I switched back to roping reins today - 9 foot - and I really am most comfortable with them, the horn doesn’t get in the way, and I have a slick fork wade, so no swell interference. I just feel like I should have a rein connector that will break. I don’t like using clips, my current water ties are thin braided rope, not much feel, and my slobber straps are nice, but I doubt they’d break.

Based upon product offerings, it seems most like clips/quick change, and don’t worry about whether the reins can break or not…

[mvp]

@Rackonteur

I agree. I also disagree with the idea of using a bit to do what the rider’s seat and legs and hands should help aid the horse to do. If an upper-level dressage horse can be ridden in a snaffle, a western horse can too – with the proper rider, that is.

As to the hobbles, they are/were required equipment when showing with closed reins because you can’t ground-tie with closed reins, unlike with split reins.

I think you have misunderstood the intended use of the spade bit, especially the hand vis-a-vis the seat and leg in the Vaquero tradition. And it takes the proper rider to do that, as well. I don’t think anyone is suggesting what you think they are in terms of hand-riding or putting just anyone on a finished bridle horse with that much bit in his mouth.

And plenty of finished bridle horses can- and do get regularly schooled in the snaffle. You can just about say the same thing for GP dressage horses and their different bits.

[findeight]

@BlueDrifter

Interesting comment for me… am I understanding correctly, that you find a heavier (wider/flatter) bit connection is best for a snaffle?

Based upon product offerings, it seems most like clips/quick change, and don’t worry about whether the reins can break or not…

Yup, I found wider and flatter bit connection better for a ring snaffle. I’m not worried about it not breaking, leather will break just fine. I found that metal snaps or clips on a ring or dee snaffle constantly slide around when you pick up any contact or bump, snaps can unsnap and if the horse throws its head, spooks or you are working with any speed, they sort of bounce on the bit ring, can make noise if they shake their heads. And they can clatter and get the rein bouncing when you don’t want it to bounce.I remember having one actually scare itself when going for a fly on its chest and set off a chain reaction of flipping head, more noise to flipping harder to more noise ending in quite the wreck. Never forget that, One spectacular but easily avoidable storm.

These clips and snaps got popular in the larte 70s with riders using one headstall with different bits riding multiple head per day. Meaning busy Pros mostly. Time savers. Even they learned to use other set ups if they were going to be doing serious schooling or anything at a speed faster then a lope that would get things rattling and bouncing.

If you are just going to putz around on the rail they are great, if you have a completely unambitious horse they might suit. If you are short time and just going to do a basic, quick ride, fine. But if you are going to be at the barn for 3 hours to ride one horse for an hour? You have plenty of time to undo connectors or unbuckle the rein to change bits…and clean the inside of it as well. If you are going to be working past WP rail speed, changing directions or riding out on the trails, hills , range or whatever, use something that provides more even contact, doesn’t bounce and stays QUIET.

Thats based on my experiences and observations since 1970. Others with different experiences may have different opinions. But I hate snaps, clips and chains on reins, Romal or split. Western, Hunt seat or Saddle Seat.

[Showbizz]

History aside, as I come from an Arabian background, I ride my ranch riders and non-stock wp horses in romals. I also put many of my students in romals as I find I can teach them to be much quieter with their hand and guarantee even rein length. Just a personal preference.

[zipperfoot]

Trip down Memory Lane here: Back in the day, when I was a kid in Arizona and just about everyone showed with romal reins, rein chains were also called “slobber chains” because they kept the fancy (i.e., expensive) braided rawhide reins from getting wet and yucky when the horse slobbered while mouthing the bit. IIRC a finished bridle horse was supposed to mouth the bit and slobber some, as a “wet mouth” was thought to be softer than a dry one…

[findeight]

Slobber chains also keep the reins dry if the horse stops for a drink while tacked. Never had that happen, no water along the southwest trails and community troughs never appealed to me. I slip the bridle off and offer clean water from a bucket. Moisture won’t destroy even the most expensive reins if they are properly conditioned and wiped clean immediately.

The popularity of the chains is more people think they look cool, Admit that’s why I used them for awhile. I got over that.

[Aces_N_Eights]

@paint hunter

Well, if you husband grew up in the area and showed sheep as a junior (?), then maybe both of you remember the photograph in the inside perimeter area of the Cow Palace with the 4-H girl holding her little lamb after it had won a ribbon and had gone through the sale, destined to become someone’s lambchops (actually that was the lamb’s name, now that I think about it). Tears are streaming down her face. The picture might have been published in the local newspaper. Anyways, the accompanying story to the enlarged picture told how someone, after seeing the picture with the obviously upset young girl, said “get me that lamb!” The lamb was bought back by this kind person and presented to the young lady to take back home as her pet. This was about 40-50 years ago. Every year when I went to the Cow Palace, I saw that picture and got tears in my eyes…(oh, wow, I have tears again in my eyes as I write this…).

Sorry for hijacking this thread a bit…

Yes, he showed at Junior Grands but always went to watch Senior. Plus their district finals for high school rodeo were held there. They made district finals but never made it to national finals.
He said he remembered the picture of the girl and her lamb!
I had a hard time showing market animals as a kid, I would get so attached to them emotionally. My first year showing steers, I had a steer who made a complete fool of me in the show ring but I still bawled like a baby leading him on the truck.

[Aces_N_Eights]

@BlueDrifter

I wonder why trail riders don’t use romal reins, as I read the discussion, I was thinking they might be more handy than roping reins, a quirt, and a rope halter under the bridle.

My water ties are made of thin yacht braid – do you think they would break? That is my one worry using rope reins and slobber straps and water ties – I don’t think anything would break.

To be honest, I don’t know of any trail riders willing to spend over $300 for a set of romal reins. I am not looking down my nose at trail riders but I don’t think most are looking for the feel of a set of romals nor do they ride in the style of bit they are best suited for. In my experience, it has been show horse people or west coast cowboys.

I am confused by your yacht rope water ties? Most yacht rope reins I have seen leather loops where they attach to the bit and tied on with a very thin piece of latigo. If I have gotten in a wreck using split reins with water loops, the thin piece of latigo tying them on breaks, not the rein itself making for a cheap, easy repair.
Using a McCarty, slobber straps and snaffle bit, it has been my experience getting in a wreck, the headstall breaks before anything.

Can you use romal reins with a snaffle?

Edit: looks like not so…looks like roping reins and finding leather bit connectors for me…

It goes back to the original post, romals being used with bits they were not intended for.
Snaffles are meant to be ridden two- handed, romals, one handed. It is like using an eye glass screw driver to fix your tractor, the tools should match the job.

I have a hard time using roping reins other than team roping. I think they are too light and don’t offer a good connection. I use weighted split reins on my most my snaffles. Personal preference I guess!

[BlueDrifter]

@Aces N Eights I hadn’t priced romal reins, but it seemed like something cheaper might exist, but I see the loop part isn’t long enough to ride two handed, and I am in a snaffle, so that is out.

I have these water ties – maybe should get leather. [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: water ties.JPG Views: 1 Size: 19.4 KB ID: 10359165”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10359165”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]

I like the weight of the split reins better, but I am just not handy with them and it’s been nearly a year… I thought of “tying” them in the middle by wrapping a piece of velcro around them, or having them altered and buckle added, lol.

So with split reins, do you have two sets of strings – one to make the loop at the end of the rein and then another from the water tie inserted into the rein loop?