Rope halters - a spinoff

How about the risk to people from a horse running loose? Or to the horse running loose? A broken neck on the horse would be bad; so would be getting run down by semi. Or maybe a school bus then then goes out of control and kills a bunch of children?

Have you ever PERSONALLY seen a horse suffer a fatal or serious musculo-skeletal issue from being hard tied? I’ve seen a fair amount of “road rash” but never, as in NEVER, a serious injury. I’ve heard stories for the last 30 years about this risk. I’ve asked the vets at UT and other places about this and they’ve heard the stories, too. But not one of the over 100 vets I’ve dealt with in my life has ever seen one.

Since from all the research I’ve been able to do that the risk of neck injury appears to be almost immeasurable then I find the risk that I noted to the horses and humans from “breakaway” tying to be vastly larger. That’s how I read the math; you view might be different.

G.

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I tie in rope halters. Have for years. Without any “break-away” component. The only thing I won’t ever do with them is turn out, but I don’t ever turn out with halters period.

But I spend a good long time making sure that the horses I tie with rope halters will ground tie perfectly before I actually hitch them to something. And generally speaking even when they are “hitched” the rope is just loosely fed through the ring or I’m using a blocker ring. I’ve never had a horse panic enough that he left entirely.

The one time a horse even came close to leaving the tie area was when a boarder’s dog got away from her when she went to get out of the car and started a fight with the BO’s dog. They carried their fight into the arena and under the legs of my horse, who was tied to a single ring. She pulled back, felt the release, stopped pulling and trotted nervously in place for a few seconds until I was able to grab her rope and move her away. She knew better than to leave and waited for me to release her.

While it may be (only slightly) off topic, I will say this: cross ties are probably one of the most dangerous pieces of equipment in the barn, and yet almost every barn has them. Horses who learn to pull back and break ties almost always do so on cross ties - if you think about the physiology of the horse, cross ties create about the worst situation they can be in if they get startled: they can’t turn their head to look at something, they can’t move from side to side, and they are restricted from going forward or back, so what option is left? Up. A horse that realizes this is not going to hesitate the second time he gets scared, he’ll just break the ties and leave. With a single tie, the horse has significantly more room to maneuver to look and “escape” without breaking anything. You still need to do your homework and teach them to tie, but once they know they can move if needed, they are significantly less likely to try and “vacate the premises”.

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All I use are rope halters.

And I leave my horses tied unattended. (I know COTH will gasp at that one.)

I primarily ride alone. I also do rodeos and horse shows. I have two horses. I catch them both at the same time, tie them to my trailer, ride/exercise one out on the trails, then ride/exercise the other. The one not being used stays at the trailer. Same as they would when I’m at a show/rodeo and riding the other in the ring.

With that said, both of my horses tie well. They do not pull back and they do not have issues. As a precaution, I do have panic snaps on my lead ropes (I custom make them myself) if they were to somehow get tangled. But I tie them “hard and fast”, if they do pull, I do not want anything breaking. I don’t want them to learn they can get away by pulling.

I like rope halters because I feel like they fit better than nylon ones. And I don’t want leather halters because I don’t want a halter to break when they pull back. I do prefer the “soft” rope halters without any extra knots though – I just don’t feel it’s necessary.

I suppose it depends what exactly you are tying to on a particular trailer, but for aluminum trailers that have the tie rings on them, the tie rings WILL break under pressure. They are built that way, so that the ring breaks rather than busting a hole in the wall of your trailer.

I’ve only had one instance where one of my horses pulled at the trailer (freak thing - very windy day) and the ring broke as intended. My halter and lead rope did not break - lead rope was actually still tied to the broken piece of ring!

I use stiff rope halters almost exclusively. I like that the stiffness keeps the knots from resting heavily on their faces, unlike the soft ones. I use these with the integrated lead ropes:
https://www.teskeys.com/steel-halter.html

I hard tie with these, and as beau said when #### happens, the ring on the side of an aluminum trailer will fail. I expect that a tied horse is going to be there when I return. I don’t hang buckets and such where they can get in a bind. Hay bags are tied to a different ring, there are no snaps in their reach to get hung in.

Also, I intentionally train my horses to give to pressure. Get tangled in a hose? Stop and wait for me to fix it. Get tangled in vines on a trail? Whoa and wait, I’ll fix it. I found my gelding one afternoon, deep in the woods, tangled in a muscadine vine, like really wrapped around a foreleg then hooked behind his elbow. He’s that horse. and he was calmly standing on 3 1/2 legs, waiting. I wiggled him loose and he stood like a perfect stuffed animal. Once freed he slung his head and trotted away, clearly frustrated- but he had learned to wait. As a result, I don’t sweat the idea of hard tying. as for vines in the tail- it’s so common in the woods around here we just make a game of trying to step on the branch or vine to help the horse in front of us :wink:

I’ve had a loose idiot horse wiggle between my own tied horse and the side of my LQ- my horse just made himself tall/took out the slack and the idiot went under his neck and ran away. So there was still only one idiot loose, and not my idiot, too :slight_smile:

When I’m doing fine clipper work around their faces, I typically slap an oversized cheap flat nylon halter on so it’s easier to clip around it, and I cross tie them in that. NBD.

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I use rope or nylon halters. I prefer rope, but it’s whatever I grab that day on my way to grab the horse.

Cross ties aren’t my preferred method to restrain a horse. I’ve seen and heard of those failing, in a variety of ways. I prefer hard tying. My main quarrel with hard tying is folks learning appropriate knots. I’ve had a situation before where I went to release a panicking horse and the knot had tightened down around the slack. This, effectively, made the knot no longer a quick release knot. The memory still irks me just a bit to this day.

I’m with you two. Most people don’t understand that horses need to be taught to tie up, just like they need to be taught to jump. And they need to practice tying up on a regular basis. Most people just tie them up and hope for the best.

Whenever I take a horse to the ring, the others get tied up in the barn, along the fence, or at the ring. They might spend 3 hours either tied up and being ridden for 40 minutes. Even if I don’t have time to ride them all, they still get tied up.

I went up to the barn one afternoon and one horse had managed to snap the front of his blanket to the hay net (it was one of those squeeze snaps). He was patiently standing there snapped to the hay net with several piles of manure behind him. Can you imagine an untrained horse snap itself to the haynet, take a step back, and have the hay net chase after him???

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I agree with you. I always hard tie with rope. I have seen horses pull back with breakable setups and flip over, whacking their heads on the ground. Not pretty. I’ve had a couple try to pull back with the rope (even throwing themselves down) and had none injure themselves. Interestingly enough, I’ve come across two different horses who would pull back and break a nylon halter (usually the fittings broke), but if tied with a rope halter, they would not pull.

This can be a “cultural thing”- ie how you grew up and dicipline you ride in. I never leave a horse tied to a trailer, let alone in a non breaaway halter and lead.

I do breakaway everything, yes I have seen a horse hurt

My own personal horses tie well, but I don’t want to risk the sensitive areas in the poll/neck/spine.

Rope halters are pretty severe, I used them a couple of times for training only, but they have a good “bite”. Most horses are sore in the poll anyways, why create more tension? I don’t get it.

I have never seen a horse abuse breakaway stuff, it’s just a non-issue. I can’t afford to risk my show horses for something that can be prevented. I don’t get a do over, I can’t afford an injury.

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The idea that horses rarely get hurt in tying accidents is the most absurd thing I have ever heard in my life.

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I have the Hybrid halter and I love it. I think I have used my rope halter once since I got the Hybrid. I have always done ‘everything’ in a rope halter. Tie, haul, do groundwork, ground drive and even ride. Of course I live out west where apparently, we don’t know about all the issues these cause??? I do a lot of training on tying but sh** happens all the time anyway. The worse accident I have been a part of was when I saw my horse was going to lose it, I grabbed the rope and gave it a yank so all of a sudden, as she pulled back against…nothing, she sat down and flipped over bonking her head good. If I had just left her alone, she would have likely pulled then stopped. I am NOT a fan of breakaway set ups either. I watched her closely for a couple days and other than losing a wad of forelock between her ears, she was OK.
I now use either use the tie rings or I use a John Wayne knot if I am tying hard (which is seldom and usually only for a brief time. I have Blocker’s every where and I don’t leave home without them.

Susan

I personally know of horses that have been injured as a result of some person hard tying. Worst one was a 2 y/o ASB filly, something spooked her, she reared, went backwards and broke her neck. She wasn’t wearing her leather halter but whatever the Western trainer used.

I’ve just never needed the bite that the rope halter gives to get a horse properly halter broke or to lead them.

Well, my current gelding, as a 4 year old, broke out of cross ties regularly in a regular halter. I sent him to someone who put him in a rope halter and tied him with a safety tie…that seemed to break him of his “I can get out of things if I just pull back enough” habit. I still use a rope halter but am very wary of it- I don;t use one with pressure point knots, like the clinton anderson ones- I think they are uncomfortable for horses. I usually drape the line over a fence or tie with a large safety knot, and trailer with a breakaway or loose. My horse seems to understand that he can’t pull back and free himself, so he no longer tries. The benefit of it is that it applies directed pressure if I need it, otherwise it is loose. He’s been in it for 4 years, I am comfortable using it, and I don’t plan to change it. I wouldn’t have thought to use one before this horse, and I’ve had a lot of horses. I think some horses respond to rope halters well.

A properly broke horse doesn’t spook, rear up and flip over.

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Yep, it’s a cultural thing. As in get your horse broke and well trained. Then you don’t have these tying up accidents and injuries.

Rope halters are not severe - that’s like saying a snaffle bit is severe. You can use any piece of equipment “severely.”

and most horses are “sore in the poll”??? What???

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Very early in life, I met (we owned) a horse who could not be tied. AT ALL. He was a QH, my mother bought him as a recreational riding mount for herself. He was a “cast off” from a BIG NAME reining trainer, and previously owned by a billionaire, who had him in training with this trainer. The quality of the training he was given and the experience of the trainer was not at issue. But they gave up on him because they could NOT get him to neck rein, and he did not tie, and he would NOT get a flying change, several of these things pretty much disqualified him from being a competitive reiner. He was a very quiet and easy to ride as an english horse, uncomplicated. I rode this horse for years as a junior hunter and junior jumper, and he did learn how to do flying changes, when it became apparent to him that it was necessary. He was a lovely jumper, and I won a lot of classes with him.

So, the first thing that happened when I was 7 years old, was that he was going to be tied, and we had the huge tree (5 foot diameter truck) with the high monsterous branching spot, to which the inner tube was affixed with unbreakable attachements, unbreakable ropes, and unbreakable halter. We had input from trainers, the rope tied in the bolen knot around the neck, around the barrel at the girth. And he was tied there, daily. We tried everything. And he pulled and pulled and pulled, his eyes rolled back in his sockets, collapsing on the ground, in sheer and unadulterated panic. He learned nothing, and nearly killed himself. Eventually, we no longer had the heart to continue with this plan, fearing his death. We learned how to handle the horse without tying him. If he even THOUGHT he MIGHT be tied, panic was close to the surface. Other than the tying thing, he was a great horse.

A “phobia” is described as an “irrational fear”. People have phobias. People are frightened of harmless spiders, harmless snakes, elevators, a huge variety of harmless things, things that most people can rationally accept as not something that it is rational to be frightened of. People with phobias can take psychological help, from people who are trained to attempt to deal with these phobias in humans, sometimes with SOME success, sometimes with NO success. Because rational explanations and learning have little effect on irrational fears. And there is no language barrier or species barrier between the phobic person and the psychologist. When the individual with the phobia is a horse, it is more difficult to communicate these things, in an attempt to influence opinions and behaviour.

All horses have installed into their nature the option to flee if frightened, it is part of what has kept them alive to procreate in the milllenia before humans decided what was breeding stock, and what wasn’t. The option to flee is instinctual. As trainers, we work to reduce the instinct to flee in many situations, and use it in our training and competition goals, “go, run, race”. It is unlikely that with a truly phobic horse, that it can be overcome, even with quality training used. Many horses CAN be taught to tie hard, the true phobic can not. If you have not yet met one who is truly phobic about this sort of thing, perhaps someday you will. I have some horses that I tie hard, if necessary. I have had others that I do not. Those who lack self confidence are usually not candidates to tie hard, but may tie just fine in situations where they have structure around them, to make them feel safer, protected. Horses who have lots of self confidence AND confidence in their trainers, AND adequate training, can often be taught to tie hard. However, there are always instances in which the training is no longer in effect and instinct takes over.

On a week long trail ride, in the mountains of British Columbia decades ago now, our group of riders was enjoying lunch break. Horses were all tied to trees, saddles loosened. All horses were good trail horses, experienced, dependable, and tied hard. Then, a helicopter came by, and landed in an open spot near the horses. PRACTICALLY all the horses pulled back, and got loose. It was a park ranger, complaining that we were in an area where we were not allowed to be. Catching all those loose horses took hours. Apparently, if a helicopter lands next to your well trained horse who is tied hard, it is enough of a fearful situation to make these horses break their training, and flee. So, if you think that your horse is fully “broke to tie”, I am here to tell you that probably it isn’t, and it just depends on what happens nearby that your horse may find to be frightening.

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my horses ARE well trained as I said? They are still prey animals, and there is always a chance that they will react. A small chance, but to assume nothing will happen is foolosh.

Sore in the poll, yes, as a professional MT I see that horses are many times sore in the poll ( and TMJ) over which these knots go. Why put hard knots on a notoriously sensitive area? why all the padded monocorwns and things when people are just going to slap on these knots?

STUPID.

Why does every horse need chiro in this area? Hmmmm…

You do what you want, I don’t want to take that chance. My horse doesn’t need a rope halter to behave. HE is trained LOL

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That’s sad that you see so many horses that are sore in the poll, and every horse in your area needs a chiro. I wonder what their owners/riders are doing to make them that way.

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I don’t hard tie. I also don’t like rope halters (for many reasons). I don’t like nylon halters. I suppose everyone has to weigh the risks and factors and be comfortable with their choices. My horses can break the cross ties, a few have and none have learned “hmmmm I’ll do this all the time”, though I suppose there are those that do. Horses being prey animals, even the best trained, laid back horse can get spooked and break free so saying a well trained/broke horse won’t break cross ties etc is ridiculous. A poorly handled/trained horse will do it with more frequency but any horse, no matter the level of training, is capable of breaking free.- or attempting.

Nothing is going to be fail safe.

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Yes, agreed. However, sadly what discipline you ride in also seems to determine - generally speaking - what one considers adequate training. This is obviously not a hard and fast rule all around but it has by and large been my experience in the last 15 years or so. I’m find the “culture” is becoming horsemanship that is lacking.

Ultimately, if you teach your horse to give to pressure under any and all circumstances, it doesn’t matter what you use for a halter, they will respond to it when they feel the pressure. Just like the user who gave the example of her horse “waiting” on her to release him from the trail vines, it is imperative every horse owner teachers their horse to THINK in these situations, but I find this far less common in certain areas of the horse world. Instead, folks use break-away everything instead of putting in the time (or getting more learned themselves, if they don’t know how) to teach the horse not to panic and wait for them when stuck.

It reminds me of a post last year regarding a user’s friend whose horse swung his head around to get a fly, got the bit stuck in the stirrup iron and almost flipped over when he realized he was stuck. There were quite a few “never EVER allow your horse to move his head like this!” responses on this board, which was just insane. Teach your horse lateral flexions, teach him to wait when you bring his head around, and that scenario would have had a vastly different outcome.

Similar is folks who pearl-clutch about leaving lead ropes trailing around horses feet. TEACH him them when he steps on the rope and feels the pressure, he gives and steps back instead of ripping his head upwards and you could leave a dozen ropes trailing and the horse wouldn’t get himself into a bind.

ETA: Sendenhorse, I’ve never seen a knot positioned over the poll on a rope halter- the only knots anywhere close are on the sides of the skull, behind the TMJ and just under the paracondylar process of the occipital bone (which is both extremely easy to see and palpate), and those knots do not serve as pressure points.

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This has already degenerated into a stupid fight, but … While my mare in general hard ties well, I know her well enough not to count on it. Yes, she has broken ties (single or cross-ties). About 4 times in 10 years. In every instance, something had spooked her pretty hard. She has not “learned to pull back and get away with it.” Based on my experiences with her, I like to use the blocker rings. They don’t give a sudden hard pull like others do… Soft pressure she understands and will yield to. I work with her quirks, and she is a quirky girl.

Like some others here, I’d rather have her get loose than not. Yes, this is “how I was brought up” horse-wise.

She ground ties to a degree but I will not trust her to stay put if I am out of sight – and I have never boarded at a place that would allow the owner to go out of sight of a horse that was “just ground tied.” In fact many places in my area are nervous about allowing ground tying at all, or just plain don’t allow it. Again, it’s a regional/discipline thing – though personally I would love it if all horses were trained to ground tie!

I use a leather halter with a rolled noseband normally, and have the rope halter for the types of work it’s good for.