Sandro Hit himself traces in tail female to
-a Polish Warmblood mare born in 1967
by the Polish WB Barabasz and out of UNKNOWN.
-I’m certain she must have been a nice mare, but that doesn’t make her ancestors known.
Halla didn’t need to be accepted into either of those registries.
She defeated horses of those registries. In Sport.
Most mares who do not produce performers simply drop out of the breeding pool; occasionally their daughters may be used, but if they don’t perform then their bloodlines don’t go forward into the future of the registry.
Why are you trying to disagree with me and/or dismiss a top performing mare AND the many other decendants of Trotting bred horses (especially in the Selle Francais breed)?
Is it because their ancestry isn’t German or what?
If you are a Sport horse breeder, I’d think it would be important to breed for performance in Sport.
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8339345]
Sandro Hit himself traces in tail female to
-a Polish Warmblood mare born in 1967
by the Polish WB Barabasz and out of UNKNOWN.
-I’m certain she must have been a nice mare, but that doesn’t make her ancestors known.[/QUOTE]
Sandro Hit was also together with Donnerhall one of the flagships of the Oldenburg Registry. I am pretty sure there are not many stallions which are as well known and as well represented like him… But as I said before all of this doesnt matter… Every German horse is a mix in your opinion.
And maybe Halla was not a great brood mare because she really was a mix… Controlled breeding is supposed to raise the probability to get a product with desired traits… And mare lines which are well known and which have produced similar offspring for generations will have a higher probability to produce that type of offspring in the future as well. If you use a mix for breeding your probablilty of getting an offspring with the desired traits is not very high. Even if the mix was the perfect performing example.
Thats what breeding is about not more and not less. You increase probabilities…
But I am sure you are really well informed and you have much more knowledge than me. I apologize that I even dared to doubt your knowledge.
And here I thought this thread was about Standardbred as ancestors of future Sport horses based on what has happened in the past.
In dressage, type is important. The horses are judged visually and there is much room for rewarding beauty as well as a foot-perfect ride.
With other Sports, not so much.
Marelines that produce performers are in high demand. As are sires produced by those mares IF they get performing offspring.
But if the current generation produces failures, the past doesn’t matter, it will be discarded.
And if the future generations produce performers then you have found the golden goose. Everyone is looking for her.
There would be no KWPN or BWP or SELLE FRANCAIS if everyone only used the known horses that had produced generations of performers in their discipline. No one would have crossed jumpers and dressage horses to improve the spring in dressage.
If you stay with what is last year’s best, or last decade’s best, without experimenting a bit, you may find that another breed and bloodline overtakes your favorite historical winners.
There is nothing wrong with your plan and your knowledge of good producing bloodlines.
We just think differently, that is all.
I am not being at all dismissive of Sandro Hit. He is a great sire.
I was only pointing out that his dam line is unknown before 1967.
That would be 20+ years after Halla was foaled.
sorry double post
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8339373]
And here I thought this thread was about Standardbred as ancestors of future Sport horses based on what has happened in the past.
In dressage, type is important. The horses are judged visually and there is much room for rewarding beauty as well as a foot-perfect ride.
With other Sports, not so much.
Marelines that produce performers are in high demand. As are sires produced by those mares IF they get performing offspring.
But if the current generation produces failures, the past doesn’t matter, it will be discarded.
And if the future generations produce performers then you have found the golden goose. Everyone is looking for her.
There would be no KWPN or BWP or SELLE FRANCAIS if everyone only used the known horses that had produced generations of performers in their discipline. No one would have crossed jumpers and dressage horses to improve the spring in dressage.
If you stay with what is last year’s best, or last decade’s best, without experimenting a bit, you may find that another breed and bloodline overtakes your favorite historical winners.
There is nothing wrong with your plan and your knowledge of good producing bloodlines.
We just think differently, that is all.[/QUOTE]
??? Yes obviously we do. I am not sure why you start to talk about type?? For dressage type is very unimportant… I believe in performance. Right now, I have two horses whose sires competed in the Olympics and did extremly well, two others have a former World champion of the young Dressage horses as a sire and my last one has a World champion of the young Dressage horses as a grandsire. Not sure why you talk about type??? For me desired traits is not type
“But I am sure all of this is not interesting for you… Its enough to know that its all a big mix and Halla was 1/2 Standardbred.”
So reading these pages what I got was that when it’s all cut away Standies ROCK!
[QUOTE=Gestalt;8339401]
“But I am sure all of this is not interesting for you… Its enough to know that its all a big mix and Halla was 1/2 Standardbred.”
So reading these pages what I got was that when it’s all cut away Standies ROCK![/QUOTE]
You got it… Thats all what counts
If generations of mare type for Sport is important, how could Galoubet be not only a great performer but also a great sire?
http://globalstallions.com/stallions/galoubet/
His dam is ‘just a Trotter mare’.
Why would any good breeder have bred their mare to him instead of his sire Alme?
Perhaps the line from him won’t breed on, the next decade will see more grand get and great grands.
I am pretty sure many breeders did use Alme. One of my mares goes back to him as well…
[QUOTE=Manni01;8339551]
I am pretty sure many breeders did use Alme. One of my mares goes back to him as well…[/QUOTE]
Of course they did use Alme.
I am just asking why would one use Galoubet (with an unproven, wrong discipline, dam line) instead.
And it has succeeded.
Perhaps you believe he is another ‘fluke’?
Halla’s sire Oberst was by an imported registered US Standardbred out of a mare, both of whose parents were imported registered US Standardbreds. I found them on a US standardbred site with family numbers and all. I have always been told that her dam Helene was either a French Trotter, which would make sense if her breeder was breeding trotters, or an SF with Trotter blood. Halla was foaled in 1945, which to me is fascinating, given what was going on in Germany at that time.
I never knew Germany bred for trotting races, but apparently some people did.
I even found some German trotting races that were won by her sire and grandparents.
As far as Clydes go, one of America’s up and coming 4* event horses is 1/4 Clyde and 3/4s TB. He’s only nine, did well at his first 4* at Rolex this year, and finished Badminton.
I am not sure it makes sense to reform breeding policy simply because one animal of a specific breed has had success in regards to producing a sport horse. The idea in breeding is that you are supposed to try and increase the odds of producing something suitable…not hope for a miracle.
[QUOTE=Donella;8341675]
I am not sure it makes sense to reform breeding policy simply because one animal of a specific breed has had success in regards to producing a sport horse. The idea in breeding is that you are supposed to try and increase the odds of producing something suitable…not hope for a miracle.[/QUOTE]
Better not look at Selle Francais pedigrees, then. And it is not ‘one animal’ it is a breed of related animals that apparently have traits that produce something suitable on a repeatable basis.
I do not mind that RPSI will refuse the Standardbred presented to them.
So long as there is a way to be able to perform, the grandget of a good mare will eventually be folded into one registry or another on their superiority when and if it is consistent.
The miracle that I think most breeders hope for is that their young horse offerings will be purchased by someone who has the means, inclination and expertise available to develop them into the Sporthorses their genetics promise they can be; and not lose their Identity in the process.
And that hope is so often dashed.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8341009]
As far as Clydes go, one of America’s up and coming 4* event horses is 1/4 Clyde and 3/4s TB. He’s only nine, did well at his first 4* at Rolex this year, and finished Badminton.[/QUOTE]
He finished Burghley…and one of the toughest ones in a while. Very nice young horse. His TB dam was an OTTB but she was proven I believe up to the 3* level in eventing before being bred.
