Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=prairiewind2;5162101]

I wasn’t able to join Pony Club as a kid, but I have all the Pony Club books. Can’t find any mention anywhere that a horse or pony needs a waterproof roof. In fact, the books mention that pasturing is the best and most natural way to keep your pony.

I have many books on horses and not one says that horses need waterproof roofs - but most mention pasturing as the best and most natural way to keep your horse.

Liz[/QUOTE]

Pony Club Manual of Horsemanship - Published edition 1950 by The British Horse Society and The Pony Club
(and in ever since in somewhat similar format!)

[I]Page 97

It should be the ambition of every good horseman to strive for the highest attainable standard in the turn out of his horse, in the management of the stable, the care of tack, and in the cleanliness of the premises. Cleanliness is particularly important.

Construction and equipment of Stables Loose Boxes and Stalls

These provide the most satisfactory stable accommodation. The horse has freedom of movement, is encouraged to lie down and rest and is comfortable. To accommodate a horse a box needs to measure about 14 ft x 12 ft. To accommodate a pony, about 12 ft x 10 ft.

[/I]

It goes on to tell you precisely how to construct it and including how wide the doors should be and how to slope the roof and ensure ventilation.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;5162107]
Like I said, I normally agree with you, but I do think you went off the deep end on this subject.

Does that make me terminally stupid?

[/QUOTE] If the cap fits then wear it!

[Huntertwo]

[quote=![](istyBlue;5162100]
Here we go folks…thought I’d bring extra because it looks like there’s a strong need for it:
http://lurch17.tripod.com/images/tinfoil.gif

Ideas for application:
http://blog.areeba.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tinfoil.jpg

And before anyone blasts me for that, here’s my defense:
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/MistyBlue5105/funny-pictures-owl-wrong.jpg)
[/quote]

LOL… The first link didn’t work for me.

[vineyridge]

Thomas !, I doubt that 15% of stalls in the US are 14 x 12 or larger. Most are either 12 x 12 or 10 x 12, which is very much on the small side. There are also lots of 10 x 10s. Foaling stalls are larger.

I might be wrong, but this is what I’ve observed.

[Alagirl]

@Thomas_1;5162114

If the cap fits then wear it!

I was asking you. But apparently you do consider people who don’t think your way as stupid. Oye veh…

At least we got that settled then.

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5162112]
These provide the most satisfactory stable accommodation. .[/QUOTE]

Note the qualifier - “stable accommodation.” It does not say this is the best way to manage your horse, only the best way in a stable.

Pony Club Book Two, C Level:

“Living in a pasture (also called ‘at grass’) is the most natural life for a pony, and most ponies thrive on it.”

It then goes on to talk about why it is best (self-exercising and so forth).

Liz

[SueL]

PP made a choice. I have to admit, I read some of her stuff about adding yet another mare and shopping for stallions and I shake my head. But even good people make bad decisions.

Going to WEG was a bad decision Yes, it was a chance of a lifetime, but I had a similar decision to make (have a dear friend who lives 45 minutes away from KHP and I do miss her so very much. It would have been great.) I said no, because there is that little matter of airline fare (no mother to give me money) and I have horses and cats and a dog to take care of here. Yes, my sister would have done that for me, but that strikes me as very unfair to her. If I had disposable income, I probably would have gone (and paid back the favor to sis later) but somehow contributing to the horse dentist’s visit seemed more important. To me anyway.

I’ve had dilapidated fencing. Horses are tough on fencing, you have to keep up. I’ve sawed, drilled, pulled nails and stretched hot tape. They stay in. Multiple escapes indicate a problem.

Buying expensive costumes to do an exhibition boggles my mind. Honest to gawd, that is an exercise in ego.

I don’t think PP is in any way a bad person at all. I do think she made very, very bad decisions re this trip.

Thomas never pulls a punch, but he’s more right than wrong here.

And yep, you can take care of horses at a good level without spending the bank. It is called husbandry. And stewardship. And putting the horse first. Sorry, but not the case here.

My friend who posts as Holly Jeanne here is a perfect example of a horseman who takes great care of her horses w/o being rich or privileged. She puts the horses, dogs and cats first. She lives simply and does things right. She bred two fillies, all are registered Anglo-Trak and she had one approved. All the paperwork is in order, they can be presented to any registry. I admire her.

My father, who was a very wise man, always spoke of stewardship when caring for animals. Suggest everyone look it up. Then evaluate this situation.

Sue

[Huntertwo]

@prairiewind2;5162124

Note the qualifier - “stable accommodation.” It does not say this is the best way to manage your horse, only the best way in a stable.

Pony Club Book Two, C Level:

“Living in a pasture (also called ‘at grass’) is the most natural life for a pony, and most ponies thrive on it.”

It then goes on to talk about why it is best (self-exercising and so forth).

Liz

Perhaps, but do they recommend no stable/shelter whatsoever?

I think most would agree that living in a pasture is ideal, but that does not address shelter, especially in the N.E. during the winter months.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;5162121]
I was asking you. But apparently you do consider people who don’t think your way as stupid. Oye veh…

At least we got that settled then.[/QUOTE] Well actually I have no problem with people having different opinions.

What I think is stupid is people not being able to see what’s under their nose.

People seeking to defend neglect and cruelty.

People making up little stories about what might and might not have gone wrong.

People wondering off into the realms of fantasy and conspiracy.

People trying to justify abysmal standards of care.

People trying to argue that keeping horses with a saggy strip of electric tape and a bent gate tied with rope to a cable drum is “fencing”.

People thinking that a load of collapsing gates tied together is a round pen!

People trying to argue that shelter can be a canvas tent but really you don’t have to have anything at all.

People trying to say that the neighbours are puke because they don’t have media skills and wouldn’t fix PP’s fencing and properly feed her horses for her.

People talking about sending money to someone they don’t know and haven’t met just because she’s had her horses taken into care by Animal Control

People enabling animal hoarding and condoning poor management and encouraging the lowest standards possible.

Now THAT’S terminal stupidity!

So is that you?

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;5162118]
Most are either 12 x 12 or 10 x 12, which is very much on the small side. There are also lots of 10 x 10s. [/QUOTE]

I agree, most of mine are 12x12, or 10x12, with a few smaller. That said, the horses in my 8x10s seem just as comfortable as the ones in the 12x12s, so it is an option, although I would not want horses with very little turnout living in them. My horses are out in the big fields 10-16 hours, and are quite comfortable for their “in” time in the smaller stalls.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=prairiewind2;5162124]
Note the qualifier - “stable accommodation.” It does not say this is the best way to manage your horse, only the best way in a stable.

Pony Club Book Two, C Level:

“Living in a pasture (also called ‘at grass’) is the most natural life for a pony, and most ponies thrive on it.”

It then goes on to talk about why it is best (self-exercising and so forth).

Liz[/QUOTE]

Erm well who’d have thought it. I never quoted the whole of the sodding pony club manual!

But do please read on and you’ll see it talks about them needing decent area to roam and decent fencing AND windbreaks!

You probably should have read the whole manual because if you do it then says you even if the horse lives out in addition to the aforementioned that you still need to provide shelter! it even tells you how to choose the optimum site to build your shelter shed and shows little pictures of what it should look like. It even tells you not to remove the cobwebs from it because they act as a useful trap for flies.

Then go on to the portion on fencing - pages on that too and not a single suggestion that a saggy white tape with no electricity whilst you piss off to WEG might be a plan!

[Alagirl]

@Thomas_1;5162134

Well actually I have no problem with people having different opinions.

What I think is stupid is people not being able to see what’s under their nose.

People seeking to defend neglect and cruelty.

People making up little stories about what might and might not have gone wrong.

People wondering off into the realms of fantasy and conspiracy.

People trying to justify abysmal standards of care.

People trying to argue that keeping horses with a saggy strip of electric tape and a bent gate tied with rope to a cable drum is “fencing”.

People trying to argue that shelter can be a canvas tent but really you don’t have to have anything at all.

People trying to say that the neighbours are puke because they don’t have media skills and wouldn’t fix PP’s fencing and properly feed her horses for her.

People talking about sending money to someone they don’t know and haven’t met just because she’s had her horses taken into care by Animal Control

People enabling animal hoarding and condoning poor management and encouraging the lowest standards possible.

Now THAT’S terminal stupidity!

So is that you?

Well, considering I did not defend here husbandry, where does that leave your reading comprehention?

I do believe I pointed out some of the inconsistencies i the original story, not to mention some conclusions being jumped on that had no substance in fact - not as far as the news story and popular knowledge goes.

Assumptions…
and after all of that I go out of town and return to see this quagmire still under full steam with hardly any new developments - actually non.

Considering how things are, I don’t think it is fair to roast PP on the bonfire of public opinion - not just yet.

However, even with her history with AC and her neighbors (or maybe because of it) a few things just rub me the wrong way and those are primarily with precedure of the whole thing. They.just.don’t.add.up.

[BaroquePony]

Posted by prairiewind2:

“Living in a pasture (also called ‘at grass’) is the most natural life for a pony, and most ponies thrive on it.”

While I do like and respect Pony Club, my pony would miserable or be dead by now if I believed everything I read.

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;5162132]
Perhaps, but do they recommend no stable/shelter whatsoever?

I think most would agree that living in a pasture is ideal, but that does not address shelter, especially in the N.E. during the winter months.[/QUOTE]

The books seem to deal with the subject as an either/or: Here’s how to keep a pastured horse; here’s how to keep a stabled horse.

I originally embarked on this subject because someone, or perhaps many someones, had their panties in a twist because pp didn’t have a waterproof roof for her horses, thus perhaps not only breaking the law - but more important, being horridly cruel to her horses. :eek::eek::eek:

I found this to be ridiculous, and said so. I think the law is ridiculous, and sounds like it was written by animal rightists. Happily for me, I don’t live under such a silly, ignorant laws and don’t have to worry about it. But I did think it was over the top for people to be castigating pp for cruelty when horses are perfectly capable of living outside. Then it developed that there are apparently quite a number of people here who think it is cruel for horses not to have waterproof roofs - and I found it irresistible to argue the point. Just my nature to enjoy arguing the ridiculous. :lol:

As I’ve said, I built my horses a barn. I just don’t choose to be a helicopter parent and make them use it if they don’t want to.

Liz

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5162147]
It even tells you not to remove the cobwebs from it because they act as a useful trap for flies. [/QUOTE]

Unfortunately it leaves out that those cobwebs can be a very UN-useful accelerator of fire. :no:

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;5162159]
Unfortunately it leaves out that those cobwebs can be a very UN-useful escalator of fire. :no:[/QUOTE] Erm in a field shelter?

Do explain how the heck a cobweb spontaneously combusts in a field shelter?

On second thoughts don’t bother because you clearly haven’t got a clue!

[mustanglover]

According to the neighbors (several) thats where they have been since she left is in the round pen, but they keep breaking it down. There was no other place to put them with the fencing the way it is.

[QUOTE=Nojacketrequired;5156248]
“All night” sounds like it’s OK for AWP to refuse animals food and water for more than 12 hours…

So, this may explain the video of the horses being in the round pen? The neighbours caught them and put them there? The video of them desperately scrounging for grass on the ground was a real heart-tugger wasn’t it? Makes for great news footage…

Has anyone seen any news that says that PP has actually been charged with anything concerning this seizure? You would think if that was the case, the news would be all over it, wouldn’t you?

Please link if you find it.

NJR[/QUOTE]

[Alagirl]

@Thomas_1;5162163

Erm in a field shelter?

Do explain how the heck a cobweb spontaneously combusts in a field shelter?

On second thoughts don’t bother because you clearly haven’t got a clue!

Well, if your field shelter has electricity - and rodents, it could be a factor…

Not to mention stranger things have ignited outbuildings…and as PC is more than just about field board, it’s a valid concern when your barn is made of wood.

[Ghazzu]

@prairiewind2;5162124

Note the qualifier - “stable accommodation.” It does not say this is the best way to manage your horse, only the best way in a stable.

Pony Club Book Two, C Level:

“Living in a pasture (also called ‘at grass’) is the most natural life for a pony, and most ponies thrive on it.”

It then goes on to talk about why it is best (self-exercising and so forth).

Liz

If you’re talking the old PC manuals, though, you’re referencing Great Britain, which has a somewhat different climate than Maine.

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;5162168]
If you’re talking the old PC manuals, though, you’re referencing Great Britain, which has a somewhat different climate than Maine.[/QUOTE] the GB Pony Club manual was first published in 1950. I’ve got every edition since.

I went to the first one and quoted from there and checked it against the 1983 and then the most recent versions.

The sections on managing horses and ponies at grass is virtually unchanged.

It said you needed windbreaks AND field shelters way back at first publication.

I believe Maine is most likely a lot colder and snowier than even the Cheviot hills in the Scottish borders!

Yet the good old BHS and The Pony Club thought it was necessary to provide 3 sided shelters with pitched roof and of solid construction even in the UK and as long ago as 1950.

Ghazzu, They never mentioned portaloos though :winkgrin: