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Saddle fit conflicts

Hi! Sorry for the novel here, I’m a teacher and I explain a lot…

I am 25, but I have never owned a saddle until last year because I wanted to wait until I could afford a really nice one. I got a (very used) Devoucoux Chiberta, and instantly I felt more secure, more able, and almost invincible when riding. Unfortunately, the horse I was riding decided he was ready to retire almost immediately after that, so I had to find a new horse to ride. I finally have, but my wonderful amazing saddle hurts his back and, it seems, makes his shoulders feel constricted with its forward flaps. The very well-respected chiropractor who came to work on him this week said an all-purpose saddle would fit him best because of the deep seat and straighter flaps, but we also tried a dressage saddle on him that didn’t fit either, so in general he’s just a bit odd to fit.

I have ridden in all-purpose saddles my whole life and have never felt as good as I did in my monoflap, and I’ve been riding in another girl’s saddle this week and have just been slipping around and losing my balance and all over the place. Today my horse took off with me twice and I could barely even stop him because I kept falling forward, which is not something I typically struggle with at all. I think this may be partly that the saddle is a little big for me, and partly that the leather is extremely slippery, and partly because I’m used to shorter stirrups. I brought home a really flexible, light, regular flap Pessoa Prestige XCH on trial thinking it would fit him better, but it still looks like it’s interfering with his shoulders, and it seems like it’s too flat on his back.

I hate the idea of getting an all-purpose, after all the effort I put into getting my dream monoflap saddle last year (and now having to sell it right back at a loss), and since I’m leasing I hate to get a saddle that fits this horse at the expense of being one that will work with other horses, but does anyone know of any all-purpose saddles that don’t suck, aren’t slippery, and aren’t Wintec? I’m willing to be convinced. Otherwise, does anyone know of any good jumping saddles that have a deeper seat but don’t have a super forward flap? I don’t think the Pessoa flap is very forward though and it still posed a problem…

Thanks, sorry for babbling so much :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=am60036;8141528]
Hi! Sorry for the novel here, I’m a teacher and I explain a lot…

I am 25, but I have never owned a saddle until last year because I wanted to wait until I could afford a really nice one. I got a (very used) Devoucoux Chiberta, and instantly I felt more secure, more able, and almost invincible when riding. Unfortunately, the horse I was riding decided he was ready to retire almost immediately after that, so I had to find a new horse to ride. I finally have, but my wonderful amazing saddle hurts his back and, it seems, makes his shoulders feel constricted with its forward flaps. The very well-respected chiropractor who came to work on him this week said an all-purpose saddle would fit him best because of the deep seat and straighter flaps, but we also tried a dressage saddle on him that didn’t fit either, so in general he’s just a bit odd to fit.

I have ridden in all-purpose saddles my whole life and have never felt as good as I did in my monoflap, and I’ve been riding in another girl’s saddle this week and have just been slipping around and losing my balance and all over the place. Today my horse took off with me twice and I could barely even stop him because I kept falling forward, which is not something I typically struggle with at all. I think this may be partly that the saddle is a little big for me, and partly that the leather is extremely slippery, and partly because I’m used to shorter stirrups. I brought home a really flexible, light, regular flap Pessoa Prestige XCH on trial thinking it would fit him better, but it still looks like it’s interfering with his shoulders, and it seems like it’s too flat on his back.

I hate the idea of getting an all-purpose, after all the effort I put into getting my dream monoflap saddle last year (and now having to sell it right back at a loss), and since I’m leasing I hate to get a saddle that fits this horse at the expensive of being one that will work later, but does anyone know of any all-purpose saddles that don’t suck, aren’t slippery, and aren’t Wintec? I’m willing to be convinced. Otherwise, does anyone know of any good jumping saddles that have a deeper seat but don’t have a super forward flap? I don’t think the Pessoa flap is very forward though and it still posed a problem…

Thanks, sorry for babbling so much :)[/QUOTE]

Sounds like this horse would be the perfect candidate for the thorowgood or kent and masters Anatomic GP.

Sounds to me as if you might need to consult an independent saddle fitter for brands and kind of saddle that might work for you.

You might want to look at a Stubben Roxane S which is a deeper seated jumping saddle without very forward flaps–at least I don’t think they are very forward unless you order extra forward.

Can you post a photo or two?

Thanks! I’m actually new to posting… I can’t figure out how to send a photo! Can you help me out?

You can join a photo service like Flickr or Photobucket and post a link to the photos here. You can post a photo on Facebook if you have a page, change the privacy settings for that photo or page to Public and post a link.

There seem to be a lot fewer problems with unviewable photos if you use Flickr or Photobucket or their ilk.

COTH does allow photo postings, but you have to pay $20 for a premium membership to access that service. Lately, all the COTH photos that I’ve been able to view have been thumbnails that don’t expand to a full sized photo when opened. I use Win XP (very old) and Firefox, and it might well be my own setup that’s the problem.

Maybe don’t sell your dream saddle quite yet. I know what you mean about your saddle, I feel the same way about mine. Would it be feasible to buy a second one and sell it if it your lease doesn’t work out?

Maybe, but I’m getting married next month and am a little poor. It’d have to be a pretty cheap saddle in that case.

I agree… If you don’t need to sell your Chiberta, try to keep it for a while. This is not your horse so things may change. And its an amazing saddle and if you ever get your own horse, you can fit this saddle to your horse. We have done that several times and it works very good

This is sort of a ridiculous website I just made to share 2 photos. I meant it to just be his photos, but it’s all fancy and elaborate!

https://saddlefit.shutterfly.com/

I looks kind of in the way but did you try riding in it, videoing yourself, and watching? Maybe there is less interference than it initially appears. (I am trying here haha) I ride in my old used Stubben Siegfried VSD and I LOVE it. It has pencil rolls and is a good AP that fits more like a CC jump saddle. Check eBay- I saw some on there. Or if you want a steal of a deal check out craigslist in cities like Cincinnati, Lexington, Atlanta, Ocala, etc. Or post on English Tack Trader on facebook.

Thanks! I was afraid to ride in it because of how much his back had been messed up from my other saddle, and the owner didn’t want me to anyway. I’ll check the Siegfried out online!

Having seen the horse now, my guess is that you can probably fix this problem by just putting a shimmable sheepskin half pad under your Chiberta with some shims in the front pockets. It’s sort of like stuffing a bra with tissue paper: the bulk of the sheepskin pad + the additional shims will lift the saddle up and off the hollows behind your horse’s pronounced shoulder bones, and it should also keep the saddle flaps from rubbing the horse. To be frank, this is how most eventing professionals manage to use their Chiberta on 85% of their training and sale horses. The only way this might not work is if the horse is REALLY narrow and your Devoucoux happens to be REALLY wide for a Devoucoux, like an Arcade Ouverte with absolutely no panel buildup up front. But that would be a very rare configuration, especially for used Chibertas.

That said, I’m just making an educated guess because I don’t know the panel codes on your Chiberta, which would have a huge impact on the overall fit. If you take a picture of the underside of your Chiberta showing everything that’s written under there–words and numbers, the whole shebang please–we (the COTH rabble) may be able to give you a better idea of whether a half pad might fix your issue or if it’s truly a lost cause and you need to find something else.

If you decide to give up the Chiberta and find something new, you could do a lot better for your money than a brand-new Pessoa XCH. I’ve got nothing against the saddle lineup, but a used Chiberta should go for $1800-$2000 minimum, and that’ll get you into any number of high-quality used British saddles that are built to the same quality standard as your Chiberta. But again, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater quite yet. Your Chiberta might still work.

Stubben makes several different Siegfrieds. In Stubben speak, VSD is all purpose with dressage tendencies and VSS is all purpose with jumping tendencies. Then there is the jumping saddle with a moderate seat depth called the CS, which I personally interpret as meaning “chair seat” and the S which is pure jumping.

Thanks for the code translation!

Jn4Jenny I posted a picture of the flap. I just bought a regular sheepskin halfpad (go figure) and that didn’t help at all, in fact it seemed to contribute to the saddle being a bit narrow. But I haven’t tried one with shims. Let me know what you think having looked at the flap info.

And because I forgot to clarify, the picture of the saddle on him is the pessoa, not my devoucoux.

[QUOTE=am60036;8141707]
Thanks for the code translation![/QUOTE]

Not an ideal set of codes for this horse. Basically, your saddle panels are built up 1.5cm more than standard in the middle section under the stirrup bars and in the rear by the cantle, but not built up at all in the front.

What gullet size is your horse wearing in that picture with the Pessoa XCH on? I’m trying to get a feel for how wide/narrow he is so that we can triangulate how far off your Chiberta is. Because if your Chiberta is a generous MW and he’s more of a MN, you may need a boatload of padding to make this work, at which point it becomes a clown game (but it might get you through a few weeks until he develops more, at which point you can make a more educated call about whether to buy something else or whether he’ll eventually fill out your Chiberta nicely.)

You could also get your Chiberta repanelled with better panels for this horse. That’s not cheap, but I see that your Chiberta is 11 years old, so there’s a good chance your panels are nearing the end of their life anyway. And it’s better than giving up your dream saddle.

I just bought a regular sheepskin halfpad (go figure) and that didn’t help at all, in fact it seemed to contribute to the saddle being a bit narrow.

Two thoughts:

  1. If you don’t stick enough padding in there to lift the saddle up and off the shoulder, then yes, you’re just going to make the problem worse. If you want to test-drive this shimmable sheepskin half pad theory on the cheap, you can roughly simulate the effect by carefully folding wash cloths, chamois towels, kitchen drawer liner, etc. into the approximate shape and thickness of the shims you’d need. Stick 'em over the sheepskin pad but under the saddle. To be clear, I probably wouldn’t ride a horse with that mockup at anything more than walk, but it’ll give you an idea of whether you’ve got a fighting chance to make the shim thing work. Your alternative is to buy a saddle with built-in deeper panels in the front–most of which are British and aren’t going to ride anything like your Chiberta (although they are lovely in their own ways). And if this is a new-to-you horse, there’s a good chance his back will change and develop some over the next few months. It’s to your advantage to avoid buying a saddle right now if humanly possible.

  2. On a horse with big laid-back shoulders, “narrow” can sometimes be an illusion. Obviously there are situations where you stick your hand under the tree points or pommel arch and truly go “Yowza! Too tight!”. But often, if you’re just standing next to a set of cross ties on a horse like this and you put a saddle on their back, it may look slightly too narrow–until you put some weight in the saddle and get the horse moving, at which point everything settles into those dips behind the withers and the whole operation evens out. Without being there in person to feel under the saddle, it would be difficult to distinguish these two effects.

And because I forgot to clarify, the picture of the saddle on him is the pessoa, not my devoucoux.

I know. :wink: The Chiberta has a very distinctive look.

FWIW, the Pessoa isn’t going to save you from this problem. The reason you may perceive it as “too flat for his topline” is because it’s actually tipping slightly backward on him. To make it work, you’d probably need to put in a wider gullet and–you guessed it–lift it up with a half and shims. So if it comes down to buying to another saddle, I’d advise you to buy something with a built-in deeper wool panel, not this Pessoa. The Thorowgood T8 was a good suggestion by someone else, although if you’re a synthetic hater, you may prefer its leather cousin from Kent and Masters. K&M even makes a monoflap that retails around $1700.

Pictures from the front, showing the angle of the tree points in relation to the shoulder angle, and directly from the rear, and with you in the saddle, would really help!

Oops, I already took the saddle back so I can’t sit on it for you! His owner clarified today that she thinks it’s the flatness of the pommel that is causing the issues more than the flatness of seat (which is what I thought she was saying). Is that the consensus here as well?

I went to the Kent and Masters website and it looks like there are tons of choices! His owner also doesn’t like a monoflap on him because she says saddles always slide back on him and she thinks not having a sweat flap contributed to more of that. Is the saddle sliding probably a fit issue, or are some horses built in such a way that they really can’t keep a saddle in place? I hate riding with a breastplate all the time, to be honest :stuck_out_tongue: Do you have an idea which Kent and Masters would work best?

I emailed Rick’s Heritage Saddlery as well, which isn’t exactly nearby but I’m going to make the trek up there tomorrow. They suggested that these saddles may work for him: used Ovation Evolution, Bates (I heard bad things about their flocking?), and Toulouse Annice or Denise. I’m really wary of Toulouses because it seems like everyone thinks they’re soft and pretty at first, but they can’t be trusted to hold up or last (correct me if I’m wrong!). Any other saddles at Rick’s that seem like they’d be good? If I decide to hold on to my Devoucoux (which I’m now leaning towards, for now), my budget would go down significantly, probably to <$1000.

http://www.saddlesource.com/

Oh, and the Pessoa is a medium gullet in the picture.

Jn4jenny has suggested that you might want to talk to Devoucoux and see what they would charge to replace the panels on your current saddle with ones that fit your horse. She suggests that given the age of your saddle, the panels are going to go in the not too far distant future, so you’ll need another saddle or that one fixed then. If you love your saddle, having the panels replaced now might end up saving you money in the long run.

As to saddles sliding back, just add a breastplate.

Thanks, I saw that! She suggested a lot of other things too, so I want to make sure I’m exploring all the options to make the best decision!

We have a breastplate, I’m just wondering if ideally we wouldn’t need it if a saddle fit well.