Saddle Fit Question for Rider with Long Femur

I feel like this is a silly question, but when I research and chat with people, there are just SO MANY different opinions.

I’m a fairly petite rider (5’4"/120lb), but I am mostly leggy: child sized torso with a really long femur. I also ride a fairly short backed horse, with well developed shoulders. Saddle fitting is awesome. :smiley:

At any rate – I’ve been advised on numerous occasions that I should be riding in a 17.5" jump saddle. I’ve also been told I need either a long or forward flap. However, I often feel like I’m “swimming” in a 17.5 and constantly trying to sit more forward in the saddle. I’m also told that the XC type saddles with forward or long flaps can put you in a chair position.

At what point do you change saddle size? And if that’s the case, how do the flaps (long or forward) fit into the equation? And what exactly is the purpose of both long and forward?

Thanks!

I used to manage a large saddlery store. Pretty sure a 17.5 is too big a seat! Different style seat ride bigger (flatter) or smaller (deeper). What you probably need is something extra forward to accommodate your femur length. As long as there is not a roll on the back edge of the panel you will be able to keep your leg under you just fine. The terms long & forward are sometimes used interchangeably so you have to sit in the saddles & see what works for you. Long should refer to vertical drop from the stirrup bar- If a flap is not long enough it will catch on your boot tops. If it is not forward enough to accommodate your femur your knee will be in the right place but it will push your seat back too far. Good luck!

Ah! That makes sense! Thanks :slight_smile:

I have a friend who is 5’10 and a lot of her height is in her femur. She too has struggled to find a saddle that will accomodate that long leg. She tried a number of custom saddles just because she couldnt find something that worked for her.

And even those did not work.

Interestingly, when she went to some of the bigger tack stores, they all said “sure we can find a saddle that fits you.” And then, after ordering saddle after saddle etc, and then sending them all back when they did not work , she gave up. She ended up with an OLD crosby (from the 60’s or 70’s) and it works for her. Its not the prettiest saddle but it works.

Apparently when the custom saddles were made to fit the length in her leg,the seat wasnt right. She said she felt like she was being “left behind” when she jumped. So if they tried to fix the seat to put her in the right position, then her leg was not in the right place. Frustrating!

I’m pretty much the same as you, 5’5’’ 125lbs, freakishly long femur. Whenever I go to try out saddles the saddle fitter stares at me for a bit then comments on how long my femur is :lol: My horse has a pretty short back and is fairly flat. I ride in an Albion Kontrol 17.5 EXTRA forward flap. – this set up works well for me.

We have done quite a few EXTRA Forward Flaps as of late. . . Long legged people are taking over around here!

But seriously, an Extra forward and long flap are doable by a lot of saddle makers. Good luck!

What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8422498]
What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.[/QUOTE]

Soo… what is this wizardry? Do you weld it? Is it safe? How does one do this? I am 6 feet tall and I swear half of it is femur.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8422498]
What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.[/QUOTE]

This post is possibly brilliant.

The problem with a long femur ( I have one on my 5’10" body) is NOT that the flap doesn’t accomodate your leg–that’s just window dressing–it’s that it changes the balance of the saddle as it relates to where the stirrup bar is.

I’ve ridden my whole life, age 6 to 50, in saddles ranging from 18-19.5 inches trying to get accommodations for my leg. On some of them the balanced worked better than others. Interestingly, when I finally broke down and bought a fully custom saddle (for both my horse and I) the seat measures a tad smaller than 17.5. I’ve never sat in a more balanced saddle or felt more secure.

Sorry, I don’t know any answer for an off the rack saddle and custom isn’t an answer for everybody, but the bit of hose on the stirrup bar might be the best trick ever if it works!

Don’t know if this is still possible but many of us at my old barn were able to custom order Passiers, Back in the 1980’s.
A German born friend of our late instructor knew the Passier family and would take a few orders each year. 2 people ordered dressage saddles with extra long flaps so the top of their boots were higher than the end of the flap. One saddle had a 16" seat and the other was 17-17.5" seat. I have a 17" seat all-purpose tendency toward jumping with extra forward and long flaps so I have a place for my 20-21" femur.

You should have you femur and seat measurements, find a saddle that "works for both you and your horse, then see if they will customize. Don’t know if companies such as Passier and others will take custom orders. What helped us was this friend, a dressage rider/trainer, saw and understood our respective fit problems. She completed the order form and no doubt verbally translated additional information to the company.

Good Luck.

There use to be a welp stirrup bar that was adjustable. You may be able to request it on some brands. If it is slightly too far forward you can also use zip ties on the stirrup bar to bring the stirrup leathers back a little bit. Make sure they are not too far back and will not slip off.

As far as position, the really long legged riders both thigh and calf tend to need the stirrup bars set further back than most people prefer. If you have a long thigh and shorter calf, it needs to be normal or set a little forward.

I’m about the same size as you, just an inch shorter, and with stupidly long legs. I too felt like I was swimming in larger seat sizes and struggled finding a saddle with a forward flap that had the correct balance point for me. I have a Pessoa Legacy Event XP3 that’s pretty good and recently bought a Prestige Sinead (aka. X-Advanced) in a 17" with a +4cm flap that is WONDERFUL. My horse is also short backed with a big shoulder and it fits him really well too. VTO has a +4 with a long flap available for trial! Unfortunately saddle fit for the human isn’t just about conformation but also about how you set your stirrups and also just personal preference.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8422498]
What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.[/QUOTE]

I do this on a couple of my saddles with rein stops, and it can definitely make a difference. I am a card-carrying member of the long-femur club and I would LOVE it if long/adjustable stirrup bars would catch on. A long and/or forward flap gives your thigh a place to go without having to upsize the whole saddle to achieve the same effect. I have bigger problems with chair seat when I ride excessively large saddles than I do with a custom flap.

But keep in mind that human geometry is highly variable and a saddle that causes horrible chair seat in one rider may not in another. If your femur is a lot longer than your lower leg, for instance, you may be able to find a saddle with a nice forward/long flap to accommodate your thigh but your heel is just never going to line up with your hip and ear a la George Morris. Which is fine - all you need to do is find a saddle that feels good to you and provides a balanced base of support from which you can ride effectively. But what works for one person may not work for another? Sadly this means that there are no short-cuts to finding that perfect saddle for you - you will have to try them for yourself and compare.

I don’t think 17.5 sounds huge for someone of your size with a long femur, but then again I prefer a roomy saddle. But some 17.5" saddles have open seats within which you can find multiple different positions while others of the same size have a single sweet spot. So the fact that you feel like you’re swimming in yours and struggling to find a balanced spot could have more to do with its design than its size. A good saddle fitter or your trainer should be able to help you with that.

For me personally, I must have a long/forward flap in jump saddles, and I also prefer a forward flap in dressage saddles. Some jump saddles like this DO put me in a chair seat, the English types in particular. The forward-balance type saddles work best for me, and I love my Prestige Red Fox.

Height and weight are relative to where the height and weight are distributed, if that makes sense. If your height is above your seat or in your legs and if your weight is high or low. A larger “posterior” would suggest a larger seat. If you are trim and relatively evenly proportioned, then I would probably first put you in a 17" seat with a forward flap if needed. Stirrup bar placement and saddle balance do come into play as well. Another consideration is the depth of seat and the rise of the pommel, as well as, the available seat area. There are so many variables.

The cut of the flap, whether the forward is high or low will impact the rider as well. That is why you need to sit in a few before making a final decision.

Can someone post a pic of this radiator hose stirrup bar extension?

I just cant picture…am not mechanical so have no idea what type of radiator hose to buy. I google imaged radiator hose, it was no help.

I just get a small bit of radiator hose of the right diameter and slip it over the stirrup bar. Use as much as you have room for, as stirrup bars are not all the same length. I can get about 3/4 inch on, and it makes all the difference. Then put the leather back on.

What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options.

It is an option through Frank Baines. It adds some bulk under the leg, but could be very worthwhile for some people. Saddle makers that don’t offer this option will still place the stirrup bar a little more forward or a little further back on request. As others have said, there is a lot more that goes into stirrup placement than length of thigh alone. Proportion of thigh to lower leg to torso, etc.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8422498]
What really would help would be if saddlers would and adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.[/QUOTE]

Ooh, radiator hose! Great idea. I usually suggest rubber bands or baling twine, but radiator hose is even better. (ETA: I recommend this only as a quick fix/temporary measure. It’s not a magical cure for buying the wrong saddle.)

For folks who want something more schmancy, some saddles can be retrofitted with adjustable stirrup bars. Smith Worthington in Connecticut offers that service.

Unfortunately, there isn’t a rule-of-thumb tipping point at which you need a bigger or smaller seat size. That’s because saddles have different seat architectures, so your needs in one saddle may be very different from your needs in another saddle. And really, the saddle is only about 1/3 of the equation. The shape and proportions of your body, and your riding tendencies, can also affect the optimal seat size. So for example, let’s say I’m working with a Digital Saddle Fitting Consultation client. After reviewing pictures, I might advise them about a general seat-size range for their body, but we’ll still customize that discussion to very particular saddles.

As a long femur club member: my old saddle was an 18" Stubben. The new ( well used/ new to me…) County Stabilizer. I got the new one for horse fit reasons but this 17 1/2" County flap is longer/ fits my long leg much better than the bigger Stubben.

It is the position of the stirrup bars that is key.

If the bars are set back far enough, you are not in a chair seat. I also have very long femurs. I have a couple of saddles that work for me without the radiator horse :slight_smile:

One is a County Extreme. There is one that’s been on eBay that’s a 16.5 that was only $500 last I checked. It’s a really nice saddle! http://www.ebay.com/itm/County-Cross-Country-jumping-saddle-Extreme-/272061919494?hash=item3f58277106:g:U08AAOSwZVhWSnC~ (not my saddle, so not an ad.)

One is a Schleese monoflap XC saddle. This one is probably from about 2003-4 so I don’t know about the current ones.

One is a Kieffer Norbert Koof FL.

The problem with the really forward XC saddles is they often will put you in a chair seat because the flaps AND the bars are forward.

[QUOTE=Madeline;8422498]
What really would help would be if saddlers would add adjustable stirrup bars to their options. I had a horrible time finding a saddle that worked for me until I started putting a 1/2 or 3/4" bit of radiator hose on the stirrup bar. That changed the geometry enough to get rid of the chair seat tendency. And it cost less than a dollar.[/QUOTE]