Saddle for petite rider with tight hip flexors

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

since you have already stated you aren’t a professional, let me explain stirrup length to you

I am an amateur (who began riding at rated shows as a junior) and there are many amateurs like me on this BB who have had many many years of competition and lessons. The fact that you have advertised as a “pro” since you were eighteen, yet have never had “formal lessons” or ridden in a rated show, will make some people wonder if you are well qualified to teach. It always will, and there’s no reason to be angry about it, or to talk down to amateurs here.

I must say that over all these years the only “trainers” who have responded with anger or defensiveness when asked questions were the EABs and the N.P. types. You seem like someone who actually likes horses and enjoys riding them, unlike those two.

We do discuss and ask questions on this BB. I was going to ask with whom you take dressage lessons, (regular lessons, not clinics) to see who is teaching such a short stirrup length, and when they transition you to a different position when you get to the levels where a longer leg becomes needed.

[Demerara_Stables]

@skydy

The fact that you have advertised as a “pro” since you were eighteen, yet have never had “formal lessons” or ridden in a rated show

All things that are not true. But go on, keep spreading nonsense.

@skydy

I must say that over all these years the only “trainers” who have responded with anger or defensiveness when asked questions

Because you keep following me around to various threads repeating things about me with no proof that aren’t true.

@skydy

when you get to the levels where a longer leg becomes needed.

Considering I have been schooling 4th level movements (specifically, pirouettes, piaffe/passage, and canter zig zags in addition to all of the movements of the lower levels) in this same stirrup length, I’m going to go out on a limb and say my stirrup length isn’t going to have to change when I get to any level. But I’m glad you think you know enough about my riding to say that.

I don’t go around bragging about my riding. I’m actually quite humble about it irl, as I still have a lifetime of learning ahead of me. But it really chaps my hide when someone comes along and insinuates over and over again that I’m not a real trainer, I’m not good enough to show at rated shows, and I do xyz wrong based on poor reading comprehension from my website (that you choose to keep quoting over and over) and what you can glean from my riding and my program on the internet. If you want to critique my training, book a flight out to California, meet my students and my horses, and then you can speak about my program. Until then, I’m sick of hearing about it.

[skydy]

@skydy

The fact that you have advertised as a “pro” since you were eighteen, yet have never had “formal lessons” or ridden in a rated show

This was a quote from your website. Has it changed? You asked posters to look up your credentials and many did.Your website was what you put forward. I did not misread it.
https://demerarastables.com/about

@Demerara_Stables

Because you keep following me around to various threads repeating things about me with no proof that aren’t true.

I’m sorry you feel that I “follow you around on various threads”. I am interested in, and post on, many of the forums here. I reply to many people and have since 2012. I don’t follow you and I don’t always read threads until some weeks after they are posted.

@Demerara_Stables

Considering I have been schooling 4th level movements (specifically, pirouettes, piaffe/passage, and canter zig zags in addition to all of the movements of the lower levels) in this same stirrup length, I’m going to go out on a limb and say my stirrup length isn’t going to have to change when I get to any level. But I’m glad you think you know enough about my riding to say that.

I asked with whom you were taking your Dressage lessons. It’s not (or shouldn’t be) an offensive question. Most people who give Dressage lessons are happy to give credit to their trainers.

Most of the enthusiastic COTH Dressage people say they prefer to have lessons from trainers who have brought horses up the levels themselves and have proven that they are capable of training happy horses up through those levels. Nothing wrong with that.

When a trainer who teaches Dressage lessons says they are “schooling” horses at 4th level movements or can ride them at a certain level, but won’t give credit to their trainer and have no competition record with a horse they’ve brought up through the levels (judged by a qualified judge who has ridden and trained horses above that level) how can people know if they are qualified to teach?

If you have videos of your 4th level schooling (“piaffe/ passage” I don’t believe are 4th level movements you might want to check that) on a horse you have trained, that’s great, but it won’t help a newbie to know if you are riding the horse well or not, since you haven’t been judged by a qualified Dressage professional.

And again, no, I wouldn’t be spend airfare to watch someone who claims to “school” 4th level dressage yet has no record of producing horses, or riding them successfully in competition. We’ve all been invited to do this in the past by The Rev Buck and by Peronace, and while I don’t think you are on their level I have enough sense not to believe that seeing you ride in person would make a difference, since all I’ve seen is your CV and videos of your riding intro dressage at a local show.

[GraceLikeRain]

If you disagree with a saddle recommendation, move on. You’re not even the OP and are taking over their thread to belittle a random poster. It makes you look like a total turd.

OP, curious if you’ve had any luck in your search?

[blue_heron]

Was going to suggest this as well. The older ones can be found around $2k and are still super comfy. Check out the Debbie McDonald models.

[enjoytheride]

But your stirrups are short because you’re in a jump saddle, as they should be. You can’t get dressage length stirrups in a jump saddle without throwing the balance off.

While people who come from a jump background often never adapt to the dressage length, the goal is always a longer leg in a dressage saddle. I like shorter stirrups due to my jump saddle origins, but my dressage stirrups are longer than my jump length. I find saddles with a slightly forward dressage flap and no external blocks to fit my long thigh and preference for shorter stirrups.

[Demerara_Stables]

@enjoytheride

But your stirrups are short because you’re in a jump saddle, as they should be. You can’t get dressage length stirrups in a jump saddle without throwing the balance off.

I ride with the same length stirrups in my jump saddle as I do my clients’ dressage saddles (that don’t have blocks).

[enjoytheride]

That’s a surprise, your knee should go right over the flap of a dressage saddle wth stirrups that short.

Even I ride with longer leathers in a dressage saddle.

[CanteringCarrot]

Generally, I’m all about riding at whatever length works for you, but I find there to be some challenges on a functional level if I were to keep my jumping saddle stirrup length and dressage saddle stirrup length the same.

I think some do get unnecessarily fixated in the dressage = long leg thing, and even if you watch top riders, stirrup length and bend to the knee (angle) varies. We don’t all have the same conformation or bodies (that may or may not have various ailments), so variance is to be expected.

However, and IME, one shouldn’t ride too short in a dressage saddle. You lose some of the ability to be supple, especially in your hips. Your core is also used (or not used) a bit differently, and your legs too.

If I ride too long in a jump saddle, that also causes issues. I spent most of my riding years in jump saddles and did have to do some work in and out of the saddle to acclimate to riding properly in a dressage saddle. I still ride on the “shorter” side, and my saddle allows for that, but there’s no way my dressage stirrup length and jump stirrup length (even if just flatting in a jump saddle) could be the same.

As for saddles and the OP, I don’t have any good suggestions that would be $2k or less (this includes used saddles). There may be something out there though!

[Paisley_Pony]

Something that’s also probably helpful to remember about stirrup length and saddle flaps is that decades ago, saddles used for dressage did not have flaps cut straight vertically. They were rounded and looked much more like what we consider all purpose saddles today. The riding masters of that day did not seem hindered by shorter stirrup length than what has been fashionable for the last few decades. I’m bringing this up not to be argumentative, but because sometimes I think we become historically short-sighted in our view of what works, or what is supposed to work. Many riders are limited on the amount of leg contact they have - either because their legs are shorter than average, or because of any number of disabilities. Para riders are inspiring examples of this. Thankfully, horses are incredibly adaptive, and there is more than one way of teaching movements to them. Riders who have horses who were formerly misused deal with this on a regular basis - finding new ways to teach the horse that does not bring up a pain/fear response. It might be more helpful to simply appreciate the fact that there is more than one way to reach our goals and that we have the opportunity to encourage each other as we work toward them.

[sheltona01]

One thing to notes, it is not just the depth of the seat or flap position that changes between a jump and dressage saddle. Is that the stirrup bar position. Dressage saddles typically have bars that are further back than a jump saddle.

[skydy]

Having short legs myself I’ve had to adapt stirrup length on the flat.

I’ve noticed that having a short stirrup length on the flat is a handicap that can negatively affect the upper body position that is needed in Dressage. It takes a lot of work and a good instructor to overcome the tendency to revert to a hunt seat position and still it’s difficult to wrap your leg around when you haven’t got much leg.

I’ve only used the basics of Dressage when I was training my young horses to be all around good eggs, but a short stirrup length on the flat seems to cause unnecessary issues that have to be corrected later.

I have seen UL Dressage riders with varying stirrup lengths whose upper bodies are correct, but they have extraordinary balance and most (not all, but most) UL riders are not short legged.

[Demerara_Stables]

@enjoytheride

That’s a surprise, your knee should go right over the flap of a dressage saddle wth stirrups that short.

What is “that short”? This is the length I ride in, and I don’t think at all my knee would go over the front of a dressage saddle.

[SpicyPRE]

Dressage requires you to be able to open your hip and that length of leather has your hip angle more closed. The bracing heel is a tell tale sign of a tight hip. Basically that length of leather will prevent you from effectively using your seat and bringing your shoulders back.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

@enjoytheride

That’s a surprise, your knee should go right over the flap of a dressage saddle wth stirrups that short.

What is “that short”? This is the length I ride in, and I don’t think at all my knee would go over the front of a dressage saddle.

You “don’t think your knee would go over the front of a Dressage saddle”? You are guessing where your knee would be in a Dressage saddle?

Yes, in that photo you are riding in a hunt seat position and you look fine in that still photo riding a H/J on the flat.

Do you have a good Dressage trainer? If you think you do and they are teaching you to ride in the H/J form, I would suggest finding a better trainer.

[Demerara_Stables]

Dressage requires you to ride in a way that stays out of your horse’s way, teaches them to move in a biomechanically correct way, and influences them to strengthen their body using bending, lateral movements, and collection. Dressage requires no such opening of the hip angle unless you’re not able to get out of your horse’s way.

And a heel that is lowered from proper flexibility and weight going down into it via a relaxed hip/knee/ankle is not braced.

@SpicyPRE

Basically that length of leather will prevent you from effectively using your seat and bringing your shoulders back.

Shoulders back like this? Where I’m actually sitting the trot and not posting? If they were any further back I’d be leaning backwards.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

Dressage requires you to ride in a way that stays out of your horse’s way, teaches them to move in a biomechanically correct way, and influences them to strengthen their body using bending, lateral movements, and collection. Dressage requires no such opening of the hip angle unless you’re not able to get out of your horse’s way.

And a heel that is lowered from proper flexibility and weight going down into it via a relaxed hip/knee/ankle is not braced.

@SpicyPRE

Basically that length of leather will prevent you from effectively using your seat and bringing your shoulders back.

Shoulders back like this? Where I’m actually sitting the trot and not posting? If they were any further back I’d be leaning backwards.

Are you sitting the trot in this photo? Your stirrup length is obscured by the person helping along side of you. If you are sitting the trot, you are in a chair seat, which most H/J people end up in, when trying to ride a dressage seat without lengthening their stirrups. Been there, when I was taught and had to learn as a kid, to change my stirrup length depending on the ride .

Is this a photo of you riding in a Dressage clinic, or is this a photo of you riding in a lesson with your regular Dressage trainer?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Hey OP - I also am relatively short (5’3”), and have shorter legs proportionally to my height, and tight hip flexors. I ride in an Ideal dressage saddle - Technical and Traditional model. I bought it new, but it was close to $3k. It does have Velcro blocks for me, and wool panels for my horse - and I like both. Very comfortable saddle at a good price point, that fits both horse and rider well.

Good luck with your search. Saddle shopping is a PITA, but once you find the right match for you and your horse, it’s well worth all the struggle involved.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Demerara_Stables

Dressage requires you to ride in a way that stays out of your horse’s way, teaches them to move in a biomechanically correct way, and influences them to strengthen their body using bending, lateral movements, and collection. Dressage requires no such opening of the hip angle unless you’re not able to get out of your horse’s way.

I don’t think that this is right phrasing. While you don’t want to get in your horses way, it’s not about staying out of the horses way, per say. It’s about moving with the horse. Staying out of the way sounds a bit too “hands off” to me. You certainly don’t want to interfere too much or block, don’t get me wrong. You need that open hip angle to move with the horse and to be in harmony with the movement.

Dressage does require a more open hip angle in order to effectively move with the horse and/or direct movement (whether it’s forward or lateral). My hip angle definitely has to be more open when riding dressage vs when I’m in a jump saddle if I want to be effective. I could possibly get away with it in a jump saddle with a less open hip angle if I were doing very basic work. I did this when I “faked” my way around eventing dressage back in the day I was just doing BN/N though. I didn’t know better at the time, and I was just getting through dressage so I could jump. Your hip angle should be open but also fluid in order to absorb the movement and move with the horse. In jumping you’re typically not moving laterally either, nor are you riding pirouettes, passage, or that level of collection and extension. There’s a reason why your saddle and position needs to change in order to be effective at the aforementioned movements.

Generally, in dressage I don’t find that it’s beneficial to cram weight down in my heel. It was drilled into me for years in the hunter/jumper side of things. My heel is still “down” but not to the level it was back then, nor does it need to be when riding dressage. Close to level is generally fine.

[enjoytheride]

I’m not sure what movement you are doing here, and your leg is hidden by the person on the ground, but it looks like you are in a chair seat I’m just surprised as most HJ instructors advocate 2 holes longer for pure flat work. When you say you school dressage, do you mean in a dressage saddle or in a jump saddle? I’m still surprised you don’t have issues with the flaps on dressage saddles leaving your stirrups the same length.

Mine are two holes lower in my dressage saddle, and I had to look for a saddle without external blocks and a slightly more forward flap then some saddles. It’s an acceptable length for dressage lessons, although my trainer would certainly like to see a longer stirrup.