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Saddle Help--Anyone had Voltaire issues?

No amount of breaking in will fix this. If you are off balance and your leg is swinging it either doesn’t fit you or the horse, but in this case probably you. May be the twist, position of of stirrup bars, shape of flap, etc, but the flat seat is not the cause. Also, Butet makes medium deep seats, not just the flat seat version. I have a medium deep and it is like riding on a cloud, but love their flat seat models too.

Is your Voltaire a Palm Beach or Stuttgart? I can’t ride in the Stuttgart, my body does the same thing yours does in your new Butet, but love the Palm Beach.

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If you love the feel of the French saddles but need a better fit for the horse, look at Equipe or Amerigo.

I loved my CWD but it was a horrendous fit for my horse. And all the rep wanted me to do was get a new saddle that would still need a half-pad to keep it off his withers.

The Equipe and Amerigo have the same level of comfort as Voltaire/CWD but much more customization to fit the horse (they’re foam and wool flocked, respectively).

I too did not like either used Butet I tried. But I know there are some folks who are die-hards about them!

Both my saddle are the Palm Beach Voltaire. I’m thinking the Butet doesn’t fit me…I feel the twist is super narrow. I can feel the edges of the seat on my Butet versus my Voltaire - it’s just a couch. I also find I can’t close my thigh on the saddle - which I find important if asking for a halt etc.

Has anyone had the problem with the Voltaire where you feel you are sitting on a stack of books? Is this fixable? The Butet rep wants to come out and look at the saddle and fit but honestly I just don’t think it’s the saddle for me. I’m really hoping it’s not a big issue and he just takes it back.

For the OP, CWD apparently purchased Devoucoux so there’s that. I had an independent saddle fitter mention that Voltaires were a bit more difficult to adjust for whatever reason. I think having an independent saddle fitter come out and see if there are some adjustments that could be done might be worthwhile, though would that affect any warranty with the saddle?
What I like about having an independent saddle fitter is IME they check the fit, have you ride, and can make adjustments right then and there, and tweak some more after watching you and horse go until they feel the fit is correct.

for me personally I also like having the flexibility of an adjustable saddle especially for a young or underdeveloped horse since their muscle / back and shoulders can change as they mature and get more muscled up etc. Curiously enough I just had a saddle fitter come out this week to check my “new horse” which I’ve had now for nearly 2 years. Sure enough the gullet had to be swapped out. It’s interesting to see how you think your saddle fits right, but then the fitter does their thing and you see how much better the fit it, What I also like is that there was no discussion of other saddles, tho I was prepared to invest in a new one if necessary.

Find an independent fitter (master saddle fitter) and see what they have to say

I had that experience of feeling too high and unbalanced (though I’d say it was like sitting on a ball vs stack of books) with the Voltaire Blue Wing demo I tried. It sounds like the Palm Beach is likely not balanced properly for your horse and maybe has the wrong flap on it for you. That may or may not be fixable.

As for the Butet, you need a wider seat based on what you are saying. You might find that in one of their semi deep or deep seat models, but that could put the balance point too far back for you.

I’ll second Equipe for your issues if the Voltaire cannot be remade to help you…I’ve got wide sit bones, and they have plenty of models that are supportive for me in the seat. And a bunch of different tree options for the horse. But it can be hard to find enough demos here in the US.

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I ride in a Devoucoux Biarritz O and I love it. It reminds me of the Voltaire Palm Beach. Now that CWD has purchased Devoucoux, I heard that the Palm Beach is most comparable to the Biarritz O. I am partial to a semi deep seat in order to feel most secure. I would think that a change to a flat seat Butet would feel wild!

Might I suggest a Biarritz S? It has a flatter seat which I feel like is what they want you in, but I think it still has the secure feeling of the O.

Super helpful! I actually know of a independent saddle fitter who can come out. Amerley -that’s exactly it I’m sitting on the rails of the saddle - feel like I can’t settle in the saddle but I also can’t grip with my thighs so I’m balancing on my calf. I’m sweating just posting the trot. Coincidently my trainer has a Biarritz that’s for sale that I can try! I have a feeling the Butet rep is going to try to talk me into keeping the saddle - promising to make adjustments - I’m not great at just saying no…I hope I can just be strong and tell him to take it back…Also on a note the 2 saddles I have are my 3rd and 4th Voltaire’s as one my horses passes and the other was sold. My 2 past saddles did NOT put me in the sitting on books or ball feel and my trainer never said she disliked it - so I think maybe I can salvage the Voltaire if I don’t care for anything else?

I agree that you might need a smaller seat. I have a longish leg but I ride with it more down and straight, and so I need a smaller seat especially in a flatter jump saddle. I tend to use a 17" straight flap jump saddle and a 17.5" dressage saddle with forward flap.

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The blocks have been a huge problem in all saddles in the last 15 years. They encourage riders to pinch with their knees and if a trainer isn’t on top of it then a habit develops. I look for saddles without all of that for my clients. Most aren’t jumping over 3’3” where blocks maybe needed. It’s overkill and not necessary for most riders.

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Can you clarify how the blocks encourage riders to pinch with their knees? My trainer and I have very recently discussed removing the blocks from my saddle as we think it could be contributing to my having some problems staying with him over jumps,. He’s big and I’m not and I’m having position issues with him that I haven’t had on previous horses. My saddle (Devoucoux) was bought after I got this horse, so it’s “fit” for him. If I drop my stirrups, my position is much more solid. My only hesitation in removing the blocks is getting them put back on if I decide it was a mistake. So, I’d very much like to understand your point of view. TIA!

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This wasn’t aimed at me, but typically if you’re more secure without stirrups, it’s not the blocks it’s the stirrup bar placement. Either too far forward or too far back - it makes you feel like you can’t keep your base of support under you and steady.

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This is very interesting. Is there any way to test this out – i.e., any way to experiment to determine which direction (back or forward) they should be? Most folks at my barn ride in Devoucouxs, so I’m assuming the stirrup bar placement would be the same on all the saddles?

For back, wind a hair tie or two around the stirrup bar, or even a tiny piece of garden hose.

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Do you feel like you’re being tipped forward or put in a chair seat/playing catch-up?

Tipping forward with an otherwise strong base can mean the bars are too far back for your conformation, because your leg is being pulled back. The feeling of being behind the motion usually would mean the bars are too far forward, since your leg is being pulled forward. Obviously there’s a range and if it’s subtle it can be harder to tell.

For a too far forward bar, a hair tie or rubber band on the bar in front of the leather can help push your leg back a bit, but for too far back there’s almost nothing you can do. As far as I’m aware, dvx doesn’t make different bar placements on their trees, but I’m not super familiar with them.

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It’s more that I get popped open at the apex of the jump. No matter how hard I try to keep my hip angle closed, I feel like something pushes it open. We’ve shortened my stirrups but that has not resolved the issue. This is why my trainer is thinking maybe remove the blocks…