saddle pad, sheepskin, and whip recommendations?

[buck22]

I recently purchased my very first harness, and I adore it, and finally just put it on my boy this morning to have a look at the fit, etc, and I need some help. In the past, I’ve relied heavily on the assistance from a friend with driving projects, and have borrowed her tack, etc. But this time I’m going it alone, so this is my first time shopping, please excuse my unfamiliarity with the tack. I apologize in advance if my questions seem silly.

The saddle on my harness does not have a cut-away for the spine and my horse not pleased by this at all :lol: and we were just fitting, he’s a ways away from being put to. Can anyone please recommend a good saddle pad that has spinal clearance? I was browsing at a friend’s yesterday and noticed that all of her’s were synthetic fleece. Is real sheepskin ever used?

Is sheepskin ever commonly used elsewhere? ie the girth or breastcollar? My horse is terribly thin skinned and galls/rubs easily with his riding tack if I’m careless, I don’t know if the same might apply to harness, but imagine it might.

I’ve been using a whip that is too short for my ground driving, I really need a proper cob-sized whip, and I’ve not purchased a driving whip before. Weight has always been a huge consideration for whip choice for me, I find heavy whips unwieldy. Could anyone please point me in the direction of a good workmanlike whip that tends to run light weight? I have fairly small hands and I’m a novice, so I fumble and bumble a bit too.

Finally, on the fit on my horse: the same problem I have with my riding tack has seemed to pop up with the harness. :no: My horse (morgan) has a swept back shoulder and a very forward girth groove. So, when I put the saddle in the proper place on his back, and girth him, the girth is on an angle like: / rather than straight down like: | . This caused the saddle to roll backwards (terrets slanted towards his rump) and was exasperated further when I attached the crupper & breeching.

I solve this problem with my riding tack by using a contoured girth, but I don’t think I have that option at this point. I’m assuming a good saddle pad will go miles to help me out, but surely I can’t be the only person to have this problem, does anyone have any advice for me?

Thank you so much in advance.

[Ashemont]

For a whip I’d recommend you contact Harvey Lagasse at Journey’s End Carriage (journeysendcarriage@yahoo.com). He carries a whip custom-made by Meredith Russo that is extremely light-weight, yet well-balanced. The ‘feel’ is super and it’s sure made a difference to me. No more aching arms or hands The price is right, too

[goodhors]

Does the harness saddle have a tree in it? Is it a wider saddle pad, maybe 4" for a horse size? If no tree, very narrow, you may want a different saddle for your horse.

The tree is what keeps the saddle off his spine. A pad softens the feel on his back, but does not really aid is support of the load of shafts to a cart.

Carts always have two wheels, put some weight on the animal in the tug loops of saddle. So saddle with tree, wider, spreads the load out more on horse. 2-wheels are safer for beginning horse or driver. Carriages always have 4-wheels, with shafts that have little to no weight on the tug loops of saddle. You can get away with using a harness saddle without a tree, in narrower widths, because shafts have no load on the horse with a 4-wheel carriage. No spine pressure.

The rolling back of saddle might mean your backstrap to crupper is too tight. In a treed saddle, the padding may need restuffing. Not sure that just adding a pad, will really fix the problem, just may be less visible to you. His muscling may just make it work to where he wants the saddle on his back.

Most of the harness pads you buy are fake fleece, not the real sheepskin. Cheaper to make, easier to care for in washing, no moths! Many folks like the color options, so they can get matching pads for various harness pieces, goes with their vehicle colors.

There are various whip makers, so you can find a variety of selections for length of stick and lash to suit your needs. Whips are not inexpensive, even the fiberglass ones, but last well with care. Plastic whips usually are cheap, but very heavy to use even a short time. Thickness of stick can make them hard or tiring to hold long while driving. Too thin means your fingers are into your palm. Keep looking to find what suits you best. The driving suppliers will have a selection to check out.

[buck22]

interesting, I didn’t know this about the saddle. No, mine is not treed, and it is narrow, but I don’t know if its 4", how would I tell? measure? is that the diameter?

I’m going to be using a jog cart, a pennsbury, so there will be pressure on the saddle. Should I be considering a new saddle? My horse made it clear he wasn’t pleased, and we were just hand walking for a few minutes.

The backstrap may have been too tight, though it was slightly flappy, but it fit quite oddly on him. It may have been causing the saddle to roll back.

Thank you for the info on pads & whips! Hmm. not sure what to do now though, I was hoping a pad would suffice for breaking him in.

[hitchinmygetalong]

As far as a whip - I too have small hands and sadly, weak wrists. I ended up with a Dobert which has been working out fine. I was lucky to be able to go to the Carriage Association office at the Kentucky Horse Park and test a few out.

Those laid-back shoulders on the Morgans can make for some real saddle and harness fitting headaches, can’t they? The important thing to remember is that your saddle can’t rest on the shoulder blade, which may mean you have to fit it a little further back than what “looks” right. I tried to find some photos on the web to illustrate but haven’t been able to find anything appropriate.

I don’t have any advice for you on the harness but I would hope some of our more experienced drivers can give you some help.

Good luck, and happy driving!

[pricestory]

Where are you? I would suggest getting to a harness, carriage, etc dealer. The only way to pick a whip, as far as I’m concerned, it to get it in your hands. One that one person thinks is great, light weight, well balanced, I may hate.
Some folks use pads on the breastcollar and breeching as well as under the saddle. I don’t. I bought a harness that was padded so those are not necessary. Breeching pads get nasty really quick. There are pads made with biothane outsides instead of fake sheepskin and they are easier to clean. Some pads are denser than others and offer more protection.
If you horse hasn’t been hitched yet, are you sure he is not happy with the saddle or could it be the crupper? I’ve never seen one unhappy with the saddle when ground driving but it takes many a while to get used to the crupper.
Which doesn’t mean that your saddle does fit. It may not. A good pad may help, or may not. To measure the saddle, just measure the width. Nothing complicated like riding saddles. For a horse/cob, 4" is good. Some folks really like treeless saddles, other really don’t.
A driving professional could give you some hands on advice. A good carriage supplier like Claudette at Country Carriages would be very valuable if you are close enough to take advantage of their knowledge.

[Drive_NJ]

Whether your saddle is treeless or not, it still should have a bit of a gullet (narrower depth at the middle where is lies over the spine)

We have one of each for our 2 boyz and both are satisfactory for different reasons
But they have to have decent padding to begin with

One reason a saddle rolls back is that the padding might be too round, thereby encouraging the rolling. It also might be placed too far forward on the horses spine toward the withers. There is no reason you could not use a contoured girth like you do for riding, but that will be a customized item from a good harness maker.

We use a real sheepskin pad under our harness saddle for our Alex. He survived a barn fire and is hairless along his spine so we use it for protection. We just bought a black Fleeceworks halfpad and I added some velcro straps to attach it to the back strap so it doesnt flop. When we first started driving after recovery, I covered most of the harness straps with real fleece halter covers.

I have since seen some online that were made specifically for harness. I think they were Mattes. Be aware that they are not cheap but are wonderfully soft and padded. They also take more attention than just tossing a synthetic fleece in the washer.

For padding for the breastcollar and breeching (IF you feel that is necessary) I prefer the “Eurostyle” waffle like padding. Much easier to clean AND has good dense foam inside. Many places make or carry that. I got mine from Pam Knisley at Carriage House in Florida.

I dont recommend the nylon fleece covered foam ones for several reasons.

1. the foam core is not dense and crushes under weight thereby negating any real padding effect. 2) the fleece can be abrasive on thin skinned animals and
2. the wear out a lot faster and people usually don’t replace them till they are well beyond worn out.

All that said, if I felt the need for good harness padding, I would get sheepskin. But do remember that all the padding in the world is not going to “fix” a badly fitting saddle - if that is the root of the problem

If this is an inexpensive harness with thin saddle, do check to see the nuts on the bottom of the terrets aren’t poking through the thin padding underneath. This would annoy the horse, even long-lineing

[buck22]

hitch: [sigh] yup, tack fit has been a real adventure with this horse. I really have no idea why saddlers don’t make morgan shaped tack, they’re not an obscure breed and everyone has the same fitting issues it seems. Yes, I did move the saddle back to clear his shoulder points, and the saddle is rounded on the bottom, so its a little bit of everything working against us. The backstrap/crupper and breeching fits oddly too, I discovered he’s disproportionately long from wither to croup, and disproportionately short from croup to dock, which resulted in this long flappy back strap, short crupper and the breeching having a rather baggy effect around his rump, though, that might change up a bit when he’s hitched. Even the crupper fits oddly, he has an enormously thick tail bone, but his anus is located quite high up. With the crupper fit snugly, it still sat on his anus a bit. He wasn’t bothered by this, but hasn’t worn it for more than 5 minutes either. I never noticed these things about my horse’s confo before! thank you for your advice.

price: I’m in NJ, not far from Lancaster in PA. My harness is a smuckers pleasure light, so probably my best bet to contact Smuckers. I know they’re no longer, but I believe their harness is still being serviced? They might be able to offer advice with the saddle too. Sadly, I’m positive it was the saddle. When he first became snarly I naturally thought it was the crupper, but there was no tail swishing at all. When I removed the harness, he had a small slightly sore spot on the side of his spine right where the saddle was. I had him girthed snugly but not working tight.

The saddle is so simple, and not treed, it never occurred to me that it would pose any fit issue at all. I’ll look and see what professionals are in my area. I was hoping that breaking to cart was going to be a fun, simple diversion from everyday riding, something we could work away at at our leisure… but nothing fun if he’s not happy and comfortable thank you for you advice!

NJ: I’ll have to handle it again, iirc it doesn’t have much of a gullet, if it does its just a slight taper. I think you are right, the padding is quite round, I noticed it myself when cleaning it up and thought “how on earth will this not roll?”. I have a sheepskin girth sleeve I was half thinking of cutting up and making my own pad actually, now that I’ve seen how simple they are. A friend gave me a link to the Mattes pads this morning as well, I will have to investigate and see if I can find some pricing.

I currently do my long lining in a Dover surcingle, it has two tapered pads on either side of the spine and a gullet in between, he is happy as a clam in that surcingle and will ground drive with joy all day long. I’m really convinced it was the saddle sitting directly on his spine that caused him the discomfort.

I’m still confused on one point though. My saddle is so simplistic. Other than not having a gullet, is it possible for a simple treeless saddle to not fit? It conforms to shape like my surcingle. Is it within the realm of possibility to have it restuffed to have a gullet? thank you so very much for your advice!

and thanks so much for the advice on whips everyone! I didn’t realize how personal they can be. Thank you!

[Drive_NJ]

OK… PM with where you are in NJ and maybe we or someone we know can help. There are some fine Morgan people around you could talk to and driving trainers as well.

Yes it is possible for a treeless to not fit if you don’t leave room over the spine. You said treeless like my surcingle, but then went on to show how the surcingle has two pads one on either side of the spine. If the harness doesn’t have this space and is girthed up tightly, you could be putting constant pressure on his spine - an area not accustomed to it.

I don’t recall seeing a Smuckers harness without some sort of channel in the middle.

We’re not great fans of padding to fix things. Its kind of like putting on thick socks to make where the shoe puts pressure on your foot better. The sock might prevent a blister, but typically won’t take away the pressure entirely. Better to get a shoe/harness that really fits and doesn’t need any extra padding.

[buck22]

[QUOTE=Drive NJ;4390200]

Yes it is possible for a treeless to not fit if you don’t leave room over the spine. You said treeless like my surcingle, but then went on to show how the surcingle has two pads one on either side of the spine. If the harness doesn’t have this space and is girthed up tightly, you could be putting constant pressure on his spine - an area not accustomed to it.

of course makes perfect sense.

I don’t recall seeing a Smuckers harness without some sort of channel in the middle.

I’ll take a photo tomorrow, perhaps I’m missing something

We’re not great fans of padding to fix things. Its kind of like putting on thick socks to make where the shoe puts pressure on your foot better. The sock might prevent a blister, but typically won’t take away the pressure entirely. Better to get a shoe/harness that really fits and doesn’t need any extra padding.
I’m in complete agreement. thank you!

[hitchinmygetalong]

Don’t know if this will help, but I found a couple of small photos of Smuckers Pleasure Harnesses - one of which is labeled “lite”. The lite version obviously has less padding than the other. Is this what you are dealing with?

[buck22]

[QUOTE=hitchinmygetalong;4390297]
Don’t know if this will help, but I found a couple of small photos of Smuckers Pleasure Harnesses - one of which is labeled “lite”. The lite version obviously has less padding than the other. Is this what you are dealing with?[/QUOTE]
its hard to tell from the small photo, but the style looks the same as mine (straight non-shaped breastcollar), BUT mine is russet rather than black (on this website it was/is only offered black?). And my breast collar tugs are split, not single like this photo shows. So, I’m not sure. A friend who mentioned she owned all 3 (light, pleasure, and p deluxe) said it was a light.

I’ll get photos tomorrow so its clearer.

thank you!

[buck22]

Ok, took some photos this morning. Didn’t bother putting the whole harness on, poor pony, as soon as I went to cinch the saddle he started to fidget around.

Side profile (please excuse the fatness :lol:):
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3244.jpg

Close ups from the front & back:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3237.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3239.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3242.jpg

The saddle itself:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3252.jpg

And this is a photo under his tail of the crupper. Is this close proximity to his anus normal? The crupper is not loose or dangling, I can fix it just barely snug. He did not seem to be bothered at all by this, though he may have just been distracted by the saddle. As you might imagine, when his tail is lowered at rest, the crupper rests directly on his anus:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c54/buck1173/dutch%20harness%201/IMG_3248.jpg

I adore this harness, it appears to be the pleasure light, but an earlier version of it and better than the later models, the breast collar tugs are split, etc. Its simple, well made, the leather is lovely and I adore the russet. Its exactly what I’m looking for for a starter harness and I’m very happy to have it, but the saddle will not work as is.

Does the saddle have any chance of being repadded to have a gullet? Is this something that could be done? Or am I better off locating a more appropriate saddle? I wouldn’t mind investing (sensibly) in improvements in this harness, as it fits my needs perfectly for the time being.

Thank you for any help!

[Drive_NJ]

Based on your pix, Im thinking its a good guess that the terret bolts may be pressing on the horse’s back when the girth is tightened

You would have to talk with a harness maker and one who doesnt mind doing re-builds to see if re-padding is feasible. Since the rest of the harness is the brown leather - it may be easier to re-do the saddle than to try to get something to match it

I specifically say a harness maker who doesnt mind re-builds as we sent a harness part out for re-constuction and had to go thru 3 makers before we found one who would actuall do the work. In the meanwhile the harness part sat at 2 different makers for a couple of months each with no work even being considered. Its harder for them to do re-builds of other peoples work than to make a new harness on their own patterns.

We use a non-treed saddle on one of the horses and it fits and works fine for him. I’ll have to try and get some pix to see how its built underneath. You get so used to seeing things you forget what they really LOOK like.

Another possibility is a stiff leather padded pad to use with your harness and substitute for a tree. Im not sure how readily available they are now, but we used one many moons ago with our first harness when we wanted to broaden the weight distributing space of the saddle. I’ll see if I still might have that and try to get a picture of it if we do???

The crupper most likely is not a problem - picture does not look that different from many horses. Some people do add a sheepskin around the crupper while the horse getes used to it. Some alos use a much fatter crupper if the horse prefers the padding? You have to see what your horse likes.

[buck22]

the bolts are a great idea to look for thank you.

Thank you, I’m eager to find someone willing to perhaps re-making the pads, maybe a bit broader as well, not so rounded, and with a good wide gullet.

And thanks for the advice on the crupper. Thanks for everything.