Santa Anita- do you think somethings up?

[vineyridge]

@On the Farm

The price for race day Lasix in nominal compared to other expenses involved with race horse care. To add, that $20 shot on race day (2013 prices, not sure what it is now) may save an owner thousand of dollars in vet bills and lost training time. Given the time and distraction involved in driving around the backstretch for a timed shot, locating and identifying a horse or horses, and giving the injection (needles, syringes, some vets have an assistant to add to their expenses,) vets may make money, but I don’t think anyone of them will retire just on giving Lasix.

And there you have it. It’s cheaper to medicate all horse than manage the ones for whom bleeding is a real problem.

[Texarkana]

I have honestly never seen someone try to hard so make a point that doesn’t exist.

I feel like I’m at the equine equivalent of a flat-earther convention.

[LaurieB]

@Texarkana

I have honestly never seen someone try to hard so make a point that doesn’t exist.

I feel like I’m at the equine equivalent of a flat-earther convention.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And I am right there with you.

[LaurieB]

@vineyridge

And there you have it. It’s cheaper to medicate all horse than manage the ones for whom bleeding is a real problem.

No, it’s cheaper (and smarter) to prevent bleeding than it is to have to deal with a bleeding episode.

Just like it’s cheaper and smarter to wear a seatbelt than it is to deal with the effects of going face-first through a windshield.

[On_the_Farm]

@vineyridge

And there you have it. It’s cheaper to medicate all horse than manage the ones for whom bleeding is a real problem.

Why are you so adamant in wanting horses to suffer EIPH? It’s not a benign event. As LaurieB mentioned, keeping an EIPH episode from occurring in the first place is the prudent course of action.

[Texarkana]

@LaurieB

No, it’s cheaper (and smarter) to prevent bleeding than it is to have to deal with a bleeding episode.

Just like it’s cheaper and smarter to wear a seatbelt than it is to deal with the effects of going face-first through a windshield.

But Laurie… thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn’t want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

Here’s another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that’s why everyone is using them.

Plenty of countries don’t require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don’t even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we’d stop using them, we’d evolve, too.

I don’t wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew’s Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You’re allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don’t even have roads.

[Laurierace]

^^^ that is liable to go over some people’s heads! Lol

[Texarkana]

@Laurierace

^^^ that is liable to go over some people’s heads! Lol

I probably need to put a disclaimer on it. Either that, or everyone is going to think Texarkana is really anti-seatbelt. :lol:

[skydy]

@Texarkana

But Laurie… thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn’t want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

Here’s another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that’s why everyone is using them.

Plenty of countries don’t require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don’t even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we’d stop using them, we’d evolve, too.

I don’t wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew’s Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You’re allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don’t even have roads.

:lol::lol::lol: Priceless!

[Where_sMyWhite]

Thanks guys, I needed this laugh :lol:

[LaurieB]

@Texarkana

But Laurie… thousands of people are injured by seatbelts every year. Bruising, whiplash, etc. Doctors are getting rich off of these seatbelt injuries. Why do think they are in support of them?

Also, are you really so cheap that you wouldn’t want to pay for the proper medical treatment if you went through the windshield?

And I just found an article online about someone who was trapped in their vehicle after an accident due to their seatbelt.

Here’s another article about someone who tried to hide drugs in their seatbelt. Horrible. Clearly that’s why everyone is using them.

Plenty of countries don’t require users to wear seatbelts. Some places don’t even put seatbelts in their vehicles. These users have evolved to survive going through the windshield. If we’d stop using them, we’d evolve, too.

I don’t wear a seatbelt when I ride around on my nephew’s Fisher Price Power Wheels vehicle. One time he crashed it into the tree and no one had any problems.

If Americans feel like they need seatbelts to remain safe in cars, maybe they should consider just giving cars up for something like airplanes. You’re allowed to take your seatbelt off on airplanes. There are places in Alaska and Canada where everyone travels by planes. They don’t even have roads.

Best post ever. :yes:

[vineyridge]

If it’s so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?

[Denali6298]

@vineyridge

If it’s so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?

After reading through all this I think it’s a matter of risk. Never mind I am so tired of hearing “this is how other countries do it” for all things life, it’s a matter of prevention vs risk if everything goes wrong. By you’re logic preventative medicine shouldn’t be a thing.

[LaurieB]

@vineyridge

If it’s so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?

Other countries speak different languages too. Does that mean we’re wrong to speak English? :rolleyes:

Viney, I have no idea what you’re trying to accomplish here. You don’t have racehorses. You dislike the TB breed. You think racetrack people are wrong about everything.

Bottom line: you don’t have a dog in this fight. Endlessly berating the people who do doesn’t seem to be getting you anywhere.

What’s the point?

[Texarkana]

@vineyridge

If it’s so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses, and American racing is so much more concerned about their horses?

I know you love thoroughbreds. I know this concerns you. But many posters on this thread have tried nicely (and not so nicely in my case) to try to help you understand the whole picture. Every time, you come back with an extremist response.

You have some of the greatest knowledge of anyone I “know” regarding sport performances of 20th century thoroughbreds. I don’t understand how someone can be so knowledgeable in one sense, yet so willfully unable to consider perspective in other situations.

Lasix and EIPH are complicated issues. It’s not quite as simple as saying “no one in the rest of the world uses it so one side must be right and the other side must be wrong.”

I get particularly touchy about conversations like these because once upon a time, I was a teenage know-it-all from the sporthorse world who loved thoroughbreds and KNEW the racing industry was ruining them with their ignorance and bad practices. I mean, everyone said so, so it had to be true. Then I started working with racehorses, put my foot in my mouth no less than a thousand times, and finally started realizing that maybe I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Now when I see/hear others doing the same, I feel obligated to speak up so they don’t have to go around putting their foot in their mouth like I did.

[Palm_Beach]

@vineyridge

I’m sure the AAEP members make a lot of money off furosemide prescriptions.

In many jurisdictions, the state vet administers race day Lasix and private vets are not allowed anywhere near a horse that is entered to race on race day. In general, a shot of Lasix is $20-25, and only the bad bleeders usually get it before a work. So, not really much of a profit generator.

[Palm_Beach]

@vineyridge

If it’s so prudent, then why is race day Lasix banned in the rest of the world? Are you saying that all of them are fools? That they deliberately abuse horses…?

You do know they can train on Lasix, just can’t give it on race day. Oh, and they do things like pull water buckets 36 hours before a race to achieve the same dehydrating effects a shot of Lasix attains in 4 hours.

[vineyridge]

I know they can train on lasix. But it’s pretty clear that Lasix most likely has other effects that enhance performance other than just stopping bleeding. For instance it may also serve as an alkanizing agent in the blood, at least per one study. Dehydration without lasix would logically be a performance detriment, not an enhancement. And lasix has been found to disrupt the calcium system which is essential for mineralization of bone for 72 hours after administration. If that’s true, then for 72 hours after extreme exercise that is the probable cause of microfractures, the bone healing system doesn’t work as it ought to. That’s a risk that needs more research, and the long term effects haven’t yet been determined.

[betonbill]

If trainer Elliott Burch was talking enthusiastically about the potential for this new drug to stop bleeding (Lasix) almost 50 years ago, wouldn’t long-term effects be evident or hinted at by now?

[TCA_Arabians]

An interesting analysis in today’s LATimes:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/more/la-sp-horse-racing-deaths-santa-anita-20190711-story.html