OP, I think the mare does look like she’s deciding to be naughty. And I really am uneasy about making that attribution from just a few snips of video; we can get into trouble and do some psychological damage to a horse if we think the horse is choosing to be bad and could do otherwise when, really, they are doing the best they can.
Here’s why I think this is deliberate on her part, at least in the jumping video: She lands and does ok; you haven’t caught her in the mouth or landed on her back. She comes around the corner and in the second half of the turn, I think I see her flatten her ears, put her head up and shorten her strides into a little run-away.
The same move in the indoor that says “naughtyness”-- head raised, tense back, shortened strides, maybe a couple of bronc-y strides, isn’t so pronounced. Neither the speed nor the transition is so extreme. There, she just looks generally frustrated to me.
You look like a competent rider: You can keep a leg on each side of her at speed and still keep your brain while the horse underneath you is giving you a challenge. That means you can do things the way I would.
I think you could go with either strategy described above: You go with her at her gallop and you keep cantering until her head comes back down and she lengthens out into a canter or hand gallop that has some rideability to it. In other words, you let her continue with her “go forward to say F U” strategy, but you ask her to soften in the bridle (while you are in your two-point and going with her). Maybe you ask her to flex to the inside and to the outside, slowly, until she has to relax her neck and jaw. You don’t quit at the canter (or the trot if you can’t get it at the canter), until she gives you the soft, controlled ride you want. Then she can stop and breathe.
Or, I might pull this mare up sharply when she started to bolt, using the walls of the arena to help me. Here, you are directly challenging her after she has challenged you-- appreciate that you are doing something fast and firm with a horse who is presently angry. Be safe. I’d stop however I could, ASAP. My favorite in either of these rings would be to use my outside rein to pull her into the wall. She can either keep going or hit the wall, but it’s her damn choice. Or use your inside rein and slowly pull her head around until she finds it quite hard to keep running.
If I were brave/pissed off/and sure the horse was mad, too, but not crazy and dangerous, I might growl at her when she took off and I picked up the rein to stop. If she’s going to issue a challenge to me and my physical ride back is going to “meet her there,” I might as well add my voice so that this horse is quite sure that I’m not going to be cowed by her attempt to say F U.
Once the mare is stopped (or trotting, as you choose), you stop being made and get back to business as though it never happened. You don’t praise her, but you don’t stay mad or tense and afraid, either. As with the first strategy where you stay in the canter, the point is that the mare doesn’t get a physical or mental break until she gives you an obedient ride that says she has changed her mind about who is in charge and whether or not she has to do her job (canter around), no matter how she feels about it.
She might try her bolting F U again. That’s her prerogative. You just have to have an effective, impersonal “No, we’re not going to do that” answer waiting for her every time.
Hope this helps!
I watched your video. You are doing a great job of sticking with the horse and you look like a competent intermediate level rider.
The dilemma here in providing advice for you is that if you are in a lesson, you are, theoretically, under the control of your instructor, who will, theoretically, immediately be providing you with feedback and advice as soon as you get into trouble. So, in a lesson, theoretically, you should not be following the advice you have received on some internet forum, you should be following the advice that you should be receiving from your instructor.
And I know I’m repeating what others have already, and I know you don’t want to hear it, but this horse is not an appropriate lesson horse for someone riding at your level. I can see, in the video, the moments when the horse is getting ready to bolt and you aren’t doing anything about it. Please don’t take that as a criticism, because you should not be expected to be able to feel and respond to those warning signs at your level of riding. Fixing this horse’s problem requires a level of skill that you do not yet possess.
I’m kind of depressed by this story.
You need to talk to your instructor. Get a translator if you need to. You need to find out exactly why this instructor thinks you are having problems with this horse. Does she think you need to be doing something different? Exactly what does she think you need to be doing? What steps is she willing to take to remedy this problem?
I know what I would do, but if this is something this horse does routinely, none of what I would do includes continuing to use this horse as a lesson horse.
Rider falls back hard in saddle , outside leg slips way forward. Rider needs to keep lower leg where it should be. Riding hanging on by bit.
Chicken and egg situation.
thanks for the helpful advice I’m sure I will try much harder to perfect my eq while being bolted with next time, cause that is the #1 objective!!!
The last clip I think she did get spooked by some horses being brought in
I still want to know what the OP’s instructor says to do in these situations.
To those of you who said I didn’t do anything when she prepared to bolt, I can tell when she’s about to bolt, but what am I supposed to do when I feel her get ready? That’s what I am trying to learn about! Thanks
Well, sit back, circle, although i can normally stop her after several strides thankfully, I am just looking on what people with horses that have a similar issue do. And she is not a crazy wild horse, she can be bad, yes, but she isn’t insane. Also she is 18 years old
[QUOTE=Karis;8552894]
Well, sit back, circle, although i can normally stop her after several strides thankfully, I am just looking on what people with horses that have a similar issue do. And she is not a crazy wild horse, she can be bad, yes, but she isn’t insane. Also she is 18 years old[/QUOTE]
The issue is, OP, we don’t know why this horse does this. We can speculate that it’s behavioral, but it could be pain as well. What you do in these situations really depends on WHY the horse is doing what she’s doing. If your assume it’s behavioral, and it’s pain, or something else, you just end up punishing the horse and getting nowhere.
You are also supposed to be under the guidance of a trainer, on a horse you don’t own. For someone on the internet, telling you what to do with a horse whose issues we don’t know, that you don’t own, when a trainer is supposed to be supervising you, is not really ideal.
It’s not that we don’t want to help, but it’s a crappy situation all around.
[QUOTE=Karis;8552888]
To those of you who said I didn’t do anything when she prepared to bolt, I can tell when she’s about to bolt, but what am I supposed to do when I feel her get ready? [/QUOTE]
Disengage the hindquarters, turn her into the wall as mvp suggested, make a small circle… But you’ve got to do it before she really gets rolling.
[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8552929]
Disengage the hindquarters, turn her into the wall as mvp suggested, make a small circle… But you’ve got to do it before she really gets rolling.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. And also (to repeat myself), so long as you are safe, the real issue is about what’s going on between the mare’s ears.
The last bit of the video-- with jumping and the take off that looked like a bolt to me, is not attributed to some other horses spooking the mare. The one in the indoor looks like frustration. After all, this is an 18-year-old school horse. I can see why she might be a pill to work with.
Either way, it seems this mare’s chosen form of resistance is to run. I suppose you could try to be quick enough to stop her before she gets rolling. But I’d also want to ride her in such a way that allowed this mare to “bask in the consequences” of her poor decision to run so as to file an objection with her rider or other horses or an indoor or whatever. To me, saying No in a dangerous, unthinking way is unacceptable behavior. So for a horse who chooses that strategy, I need to figure out a way for the horse to see that she has some skin in the game and that if bolting sucks for me, her rider, it’s also going to suck for her. The horse who tells you to Eff Off needs to be given a reason to make your happiness her problem.
ETA: You can stop the bolter who has reached something close to terminal velocity… but you need to be smart about it. IME, pulling the nose slowly around to your knee on the inside is pretty safe. Don’t do it so fast you risk pulling the horse over. Same goes for turning the head toward a wall. A horse can prop pretty hard with both front feet from the canter and send you off over it’s head. That’s no good, especially with the wall in your body’s way. I like the idea of being parallel to the wall (as the horse probably put you anyway) and slowly turning her head toward it so that she would have to “skid” her nose on it or slow down. Remember that she’ll be on the opposite lead, so you need to have her close to the wall and slowing down, not thinking about changing direction and really losing her balance badly.
Good luck, OP. I’m sorry this has become your problem. It really shouldn’t be.
Thanks for the video! I’d agree that the mare is doing this as a resistance, but the question is, to what? If this were my own horse, I would have everything checked out: saddle fit, back with chiropractor, ulcers, any emerging stiffness in the joints, the works. And then when I knew there was nothing physically wrong, I would back off jumping for a while and school trot/canter transitions, and make sure the horse could hold herself in an upright canter for extended periods of time.
To me, this doesn’t look like “maximum velocity” bolt like you might get in a green horse, or a horse in turn out. It is more a “running away from work” move. The first indoor clip, she really just gets up to a strong hand gallop speed. The second indoor clip, there is an attempted buck involved. In both clips, the runaway happens at exactly the same spot in the arena, going off the wall and across the arena.
As one of the other posters said, you need to be able to predict when it is going to happen, and intervene, to feel the moment she starts to hollow out or even think about hollowing out. At that point, you can ride a circle to rebalance the canter. Once she is on the forehand and going fast, your only option is to ride it out or do some kind of emergency stop, which isn’t going to help fix the problem from happening again. Learning to predict that moment and take action is what you need to do. And even if you circled a few times when it wasn’t 100 % necessary, that is better long-term than letting her run away.
The last clip, outdoors, has more of a spook/scuttle feel, as she throws up her head, hollows her back, and runs away. The clip is cut short, but it does show very clearly that once her head goes up and her balance goes forward, it’s a bit like falling down a hill: pulling back is not going to stop her.
This feeling for the emerging problem is so subtle that you can’t wait for the instructor to say “ride her in a circle.” You need to develop that feel yourself.
I think that feel is the difference between a competent rider and a good one. I am currently watching a good amateur rider school a hot OTTB at my barn. She has a solid seat and is not afraid, and can ride out his blow-ups. But then I watch my coach on another equally crazy OTTB, and I see that she is able to intervene before he ever blows up. Amateur isn’t making much progress in changing horse’s behavior, as far as I can tell.
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8553163]
I think that feel is the difference between a competent rider and a good one. I am currently watching a good amateur rider school a hot OTTB at my barn. She has a solid seat and is not afraid, and can ride out his blow-ups. But then I watch my coach on another equally crazy OTTB, and I see that she is able to intervene before he ever blows up. [/QUOTE]
Off on a bit of a tangent, but to me, the bolded part is a sign of a great trainer. When I first started riding my young mule, under the supervision of the trainer who started him under saddle, we would repeatedly have the same conversation.
Me: How do I make him stop doing [insert evasion/behavior of the day]?
Trainer: Uhhh, I don’t know, he doesn’t do that when I ride him.
:lol:
(Actually, my trainer was fantastic, he would always follow up that initial exchange by figuring out exactly where I was missing the mule’s initial indication of impending misbehavior and helping me feel/see/understand how to prevent it myself.)
[QUOTE=merrygoround;8552703]
Rider falls back hard in saddle , outside leg slips way forward. Rider needs to keep lower leg where it should be. Riding hanging on by bit.
Chicken and egg situation.[/QUOTE]
BOY howdy this is about the least helpful “advice” I’ve ever read.
OP, you need to stop riding this horse. It is unsuitable for you as a lesson horse. It is difficult to offer advice because you are in a lesson situation and your trainer should not have you on that horse in the first place. A lesson situation with a horse you owned that was a bolter might be different.
The bolter I rode bolted so often people that rode with me just gathered in the middle until I got her stopped. When she bolted I’d drop my butt into the saddle and sit back. There were plenty of times I was caught off guard and my EQ went out the window. Which is normal. There isn’t a single rider on the planet who isn’t going to find themselves in the back seat during an unexpected bolt.
I found it very helpful to use a running martingale with this horse set a bit short so I had some immediate leverage that engaged when the horse took off. I’d stop the horse, circle, then go right back to work. Bolting for her was a behavior issue due to some previous horrible riding. Not a soundness issue. I eventually got it under control but it was always a go to vice. However, AGAIN, it’s time taught survival technique and I would in no way ever ride a lesson horse that bolted.
Sorry. but this was in response to a comment about how well the rider was handling the horse,and that rider was an intermediate rider. I have already advised the rider to seek eyes on the ground etc. If rider is not getting the help required she needs to rethink her school.
[QUOTE=Karis;8550265]
Thank you so much!!! An actual reply that is useful!!! Thank you a lot! would it be more beneficial for me to make her keep cantering after she bolts or halt or walk her? Also she is a lesson horse so some of that I can’t do because I just ride her in lessons 
anywho pretty much the main problem we have is her getting away from me and running, that is mostly in my jumping lessons[/QUOTE]
During jumping helps clarify. She may have pain or have been over-faced or another reason. My old jumping instructor had me jump then halt and stand (usually until she just starts to get antsy then rider tells her to walk forward).
The past few weeks have been great! And she was great for the reitabzeichen we did!!! We passed!!!
The video did not work for me, so I don’t have that to go off of. But as a some what timid rider I prefer MVP’s second choice. or even better nipping it in the bud before she really gets going.
I would try to do that by asking for a little side ways a little leg yield or shoulder fore to keep her brain on you and put her energy into some thing constructive, If she does this regularly when you go straight I would put her into shoulder fore on the circle and make her stay in shoulder fore on the straight hopefully that will prevent the bolting.
Good luck it sounds like a tough situation. I think you can work through it though.
