Say it isn't so....Inclusive on USEF Drug List

[mvp]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8271905]
I have never experienced a local “yeehaw” show that even gets close to the chaos of an A show…and I’ve been to a lot of yeehaws…even run one myself. They are good for getting the horse out, around different jumps, in a warm up…but not good for chaos. [/QUOTE]

You should have been at the barrel race I was at last night. The chaos was beyond what you’d see at even the most crowded AA show. In parts, it was even more crowed and stimulating for a horse than the AQHA Congress. And it was free if you were there but not competing.

It’s complete BS that no one can find a way to get a horse broke without taking it to a big AA show.

[Calling_Duck]

[QUOTE=scrbear11;8272788]
"Aug. 14 Update: USEF has removed record of Jayne’s penalty from the July hearing committee report. The organization hasn’t yet responded to requests for explanation. "

The update to the COTH article. I bet money she threatened with some sort of lawsuit. Defamation of Character… Something along those lines.[/QUOTE]

Well, she is a Jayne.

[IPEsq]

It’s not defamatory if it’s true…

[chunky_munky]

There has been little success in suing the USEF on many previous occasions. It is a private club and as such can do almost anything that the group chooses to do. Chances are she has filed an appeal.

[Dressagelvr]

I guess the only thing about this thread that surprises me is the number of people who think this is something of “today’s” hunters. I showed hunters back in the mid 80s. I rode with a BNT at the shows, but had my horses at home and stalled separately at the shows. A friend kept her horses w/the BNT full time. Drugs were on her board bill, right below shoes.

Folks, this is nothing new and until the USEF makes hunters an honest sport (more crackdowns on this, one ID per horse to eliminate selling scams), this will keep on.

. In the jumpers, I let my horses shine with their unique personalities and style and as long as they get around double clean no one cares.

You may let your horses shine, but drugging and hideous training practices exist in top jumpers too. Really, in horse sports of all kinds. Less prevalent in dressage, but certainly not absent.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=bjd2013;8272697]

I can only imagine how hard it is for a lot of BNT’s and other trainers alike. You have Susie who really wants her 4YO to debut in the Pre-Greens but he’s not really ready. You know he’d be fine with more mileage, but you can’t make your customer mad or she will leave. [/QUOTE]

Yes, but if everyone were forced to stop drugging, there’d be nowhere for Suzie Ammy to go to get that pharmaceutical shortcut. That’s why the onus is on the USEF. Apparently the morals and economics of the horse training industry make it simply.impossible. for any one pro to be the one guy who doesn’t drug horses.

[Anne]

I just spoke to Emily Pratt, the director of Regulations for USEF. Lynn’s finding was inadvertently published too soon, as she was still within the 30 day window to request a review by the hearing committee. Pending that review, the finding has been removed, and it will reappear, with new information if the hearing committee changes anything, after the review process is complete.

If it’s not a done deal, seems like USEF rather MAJORLY erred in publishing it.

[bjd2013]

Same thing happened to Tommy Serio when they published it the first time. They said they had already appealed it, and payed the fee and the USEF published it anyway, and apologized for making the mistake.

[bjd2013]

[QUOTE=mvp;8272856]
Yes, but if everyone were forced to stop drugging, there’d be nowhere for Suzie Ammy to go to get that pharmaceutical shortcut. That’s why the onus is on the USEF. Apparently the moralns and economics of the horse training industry make it simply.impossible. for any one pro to be the one guy who doesn’t drug horses.[/QUOTE]

But you’ll NEVER stop cheating. Ever. End of story. In any and every sport there will ALWAYS be someone who can get around the rules. And sadly, cheaters usually win.

[caballogurl]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8272830]
Folks, this is nothing new and until the USEF makes hunters an honest sport (more crackdowns on this, one ID per horse to eliminate selling scams), this will keep on.[/QUOTE]

So what specific ideas does everyone have to make this a more honest sport? To clean up not just the hunters, but all divisions. A simple solution is to test the top two horses in all USEF sponsored shows. But as long as USEF is partnered with companies like Perfect Prep, I am highly skeptical anything will change.

[IPEsq]

There’s mandatory testing in a lot of sports…I believe racing is one of them. And we still have cheaters.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8272830]
I guess the only thing about this thread that surprises me is the number of people who think this is something of “today’s” hunters.[/QUOTE]

There have been pharmaceutical advances, but yes, sadly, you are right on that front.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8272926]
There’s mandatory testing in a lot of sports…I believe racing is one of them. And we still have cheaters.[/QUOTE]

Yeah…but mandatory testing of winners and CH and R. CH would really put a damper on things…until the next big thing was found.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=bjd2013;8272916]
But you’ll NEVER stop cheating. Ever. End of story. In any and every sport there will ALWAYS be someone who can get around the rules. And sadly, cheaters usually win.[/QUOTE]

No you won’t, but that ought not to be a reason to permit it, either.

[bjd2013]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8272937]
No you won’t, but that ought not to be a reason to permit it, either.[/QUOTE]

But in our sport anything can be considered cheating. Lunging? Why do you lunge? Typically to make them quiet and to get any bucks out. Bute? Banamine? Sure they should be for comfort, but what about masking pain? Robaxin? Same thing. Dex? Sure for hives or something related, but others use it to make them drowsy. Then that leads you to naturally accruing substances like Magnesium, you can feed it, inject it, and it won’t test.

My point is, you won’t be able to stop it. And if we get FEI strict, the horses are going to have to suffer more than they already do. Something has to give.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8272935]
Yeah…but mandatory testing of winners and CH and R. CH would really put a damper on things…until the next big thing was found.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Routine testing of the top 2 or 3 as well as random tests would be a more effective deterrent.

[huntersgonewild]

[QUOTE=Janet;8272733]
Speak for yourself.

I am 61 and nowhere near as good a rider as him, and I have a sometimes difficult greeen 4 yo that I have been taking places to desensitize her since she was 2.

She is going to her first “real” under-saddle show, at the Virginia Horse Center in Lexington, next weekend.

I fully expect to be " taking green horses anywhere" for desensitization in 5 years.[/QUOTE]

Good for you. I hope you are still riding babies at age 66 but you will be in the minority if you are. Most riders over a certain age can’t afford to hit the ground like we could when we were younger. I know my appetite for getting on young horses in crowded AA venues is lessening as I get older, mostly because of the emotional and financial damage it would do to my family if I am seriously injured. I feel I have an obligation to minimize that risk for other people in my life. But that is my personal choice. As for the professionals, I have ridden with more than one top professional in their 60’s and they are asked to ride things they perhaps shouldn’t be riding anymore. They have a lot of knowledge left to impart to the horse world and I hate to see them get hurt.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=skydy;8272958]
I agree. Routine testing of the top 2 or 3 as well as random tests would be a more effective deterrent.[/QUOTE]

And, it’s really expensive. When I used to be an amateur bike racer in the mid-Atlantic, our local organization looked into ways to try to get some testing done at our level, because after all, we pay into the USADA fees with our memberships. It was going to be very difficult to implement regular random testing, much less mandatory testing. We looked into it because there had been some stories of masters level amateur racers getting caught at some big events that pissed people off. I mean, we know the pros cheat, but amateurs? Really? Yes. Just like Suzie Ammie h/j rider or her BNT might cheat.

I think it would be very difficult to have the testing staff available to test that volume of horses at a show, especially the big shows with umpteen divisions. Sometimes, testing takes forever when you’ve got a horse that doesn’t pee on cue, and the tester that picked that horse has to stay with horse the ENTIRE TIME after owner/trainer/rider is notified that horse is selected for testing.

I’m not saying that mandatory testing is bad. I’m saying it’s expensive. And showing is expensive enough already. Who do we think is going to bear the cost of mandatory testing of at least 2 horses per division, every division, every week?

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=bjd2013;8272697]
A lot of people don’t care about learning or doing it the correct way, they only care about that 50 cent ribbon and the points.[/QUOTE]

Chances are if they don’t care about doing it the correct way, they never received that education to begin with.

[caballogurl]

[QUOTE=bjd2013;8272955]
Then that leads you to naturally accruing substances like Magnesium, you can feed it, inject it, and it won’t test. [/QUOTE]

Lunging is not cheating because it is permitted. Whether I would want the shit lunged out of my personal horse, the answer is no. Bute and Banamine are not cheating as long as they are within prescribed limits. If a horse had a serious lameness issue, one tablet of bute is not going to mask it. Dex is allowed within prescribed limits and for the purpose it was intended, but you are correct we have no way to know if the horse really needed it or if it was given to make a horse loopy. Almost every horse got dex at Thermal in the hunter barn I rode in and I doubt it was for hives. But again technically if they gave a dosage within prescribed limits, the horse would not test positively. These things are all out of our control.

But we can do is more testing to find those who are doping with illegal substances and those that are exceeding the NSAID limits. There will always be abuse, but we have a responsibility to limit it as much as humanly possible for the sake of our sport.

Also, I thought there was a test for excessive levels of magnesium? Anyone know?