Say it isn't so....Inclusive on USEF Drug List

[Ponytoes]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8269915]
The part that still gets me is that I cannot imagine why any trainer (especially a BNT who bills clients for everything to do with their horses) would use a dusty 3 year old container of an ulcer med. that they knew nothing about.

How many times a week does someone from a BNT barn go to the feed store, tack store, call the vet, contact SmartPak?

Hell I am a LNAmmie and I scrupiously throw away all meds/drugs within 2 years after their expiration date.

And I sure as hell would use Gastroguard, Neighlox or one of Smart Paks ulcer treatments before opening up an ancient can of a product I knew nothing about and using it for 3+ months[/QUOTE]

This - when I first read her rant I thought the same thing - crazy…Especially if she thought she is using it as a “gut calmer” A three year old gut calmer? That is a toss of the dice

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8269885]
If I were her, I would cry “dirty pool” (probably in more colorful language). Arabian people get suspended/fined while dressage people only get Yellow Cards.

Tina Konyot meet Alerandria Desiderio

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?471857-Tina-Konyot-FEI-Yellow-Card-Hilarious-or-Embarassing[/QUOTE]

Two different organizations. FEI and USEF.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=bjd2013;8269992]
Shouldn’t you know what’s going on if you sign the entry blank? Find that hard to believe.[/QUOTE]

You should, but with a horse competing while transitioning between two trainers/barns with a junior rider and owner who is not the parent of the rider… I can see how things are a touch more complicated. That’s not to condone the test “result”, but to acknowledge it was a tad more complex than when I showed up at the in gate with my “trainer” and the horse was in my care, custody and control 100% of the time.

[Peggy]

GABA is not the same as gabapentin. Though, if you want to believe Wikipedia, and an unreferenced portion of the gabapentin article at that, gabapentin was developed to mimic the structure of the GABA, though it was later found to act on different receptors. Gabapentin has a ring fused into the four-carbon chain that’s in GABA.

Whether you have glutamic acid or glutamate (the G of MSG) is going to depend on the pH. When MSG hits the acidic environment in the stomach, it’s all going to get converted to glutamic acid.

Aside from the Jayne anomaly, I wonder why the seven-month suspensions of the two Inclusive suspendees don’t cover the same time period, though they do overlap.

The letter/FB post (and now Serio comments on the Chronicle FB post about the suspensions) remind me vaguely of some of the excuses I get when students get caught cheating.

[Plumcreek]

Are the winners of the Pre-Green Incentive and Hunter Derby Finals automatically drug tested?

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=bluedapple;8269688]
I just watched the pre-green finals. Any horse with any play through the lead change or ears too pricked through the corner did not place. Its sad, after all, these are the babies. Why cant the horses show they are enjoying themselves? Why cant they be real horses? As long as the horses have to be completely robotic and dull, trainers will drug them[/QUOTE]

Tying back to the earlier comment about dressage horses, one thing to note is that because individual movements are scored in dressage, there’s no supposition about what did or didn’t cause a loss of points. For example, it may be that the judge didn’t mind an expressive change but felt the jump was flat. On a dressage score sheet, this would be clearly laid out.

It is also true that energy, exuberance, and brilliance is rewarded in dressage, and that “needs more forward” or “needs more energy” is a very common comment on a lower level test.

[kenyarider]

Such a disappointing story about Tori’s mom and Dr. Parker. I am not going to weigh on the child. I believe that if the supplement, additive or whatever is used to calm, sedate or tranquilize, the purpose is to make the animal perform in a way that is not its natural state. I know that horses can be quite excitable, to the point of unrideability. But ask yourself this: Would you drive your car or do anything that requires quick reactions with anything that calmed, sedated, tranquilized or made you anything less than aware? Would you let someone in that state drive with your child? Why do we want to sit on a horse and ask it to jump like that? I know there are horses out there that I wouldn’t ride because they are so excitable or just plain wild but that’s their nature and we should strive to fix it by training not medications or exhaustion. I am not looking for a flame here, I just wish that this kind of stuff didn’t happen. I also think that owners and trainers should be equally penalized for this kind of stuff. The idea that anyone can sign as the “trainer” and take the fall is absurd. The trainer and the owner should and do know what’s going on with these horses and if they don’t, they need to hire someone to monitor their animals at all times to prevent this kind of event. For pete’s sake. . . .

[palypinto]

Just wondering if anyone knows if the toxicology reports have been released involving the horse Cambridge that fell and died at the Devon Horse Show?

[busylady]

Regarding Brigid’s “I had nothing to do with it” statement. Wasn’t there an article about Tori nursing Inclusive back to health? IIRC, the horse was even at her home stable. I find it hard to believe Brigid, who signed as trainer and had been the barn manager, had nothing to do with it. Interesting to note she didn’t deny the horse was medicated. Wonder who she will throw under the bus??

[RugBug]

[I]I just watched the pre-green finals. Any horse with any play through the lead change or ears too pricked through the corner did not place.

[/I]So, I only watched the highlighted rounds, but Clever Conversation played a bit and had the highest score of the 5 very nice rounds I watched. I’m not saying I disagree with the sentiment that it is sad that our horses are expected to be mindless zombies, but I did see some life in the pre-green horses…and they still did decently.

[QUOTE=kenyarider;8270050]
ask yourself this: Would you drive your car or do anything that requires quick reactions with anything that calmed, sedated, tranquilized or made you anything less than aware? [/QUOTE]

People drive under the influence of stuff ALL.THE.TIME. Not just alcohol, but sedatives, prescription meds, etc.

[Mardi]

I’ve read all the posts, Mrs. Serio’s own letter, and all the Facebook comments.

None of this paints a very nice picture of the horse show industry. Someone’s horse tested positive in a random drug test. The person had a chance to tell their story to the accuser/USEF, and then the accuser/USEF - of which the person is a member by their own choice- followed their own established procedures as set forth in the rules that the member agreed to follow. After the decision didn’t turn out well for the person and his family, they are frustrated, angry, and complaining, despite agreeing to abide by the policies as a condition of membership.

Then, horse shows are characterized as being very busy with golf carts, machinery, and so many people that horses (all of them ?) need a calming supplement so they can handle it. If the shows are that unsettling to horses (who are the priority at a HORSE show) then that’s a safety issue, and show management’s problem. It’s not mentioned anywhere when the person addressed that with any show manager.

Now it’s suggested to be careful about hay in stalls that grooms pee in, because they may have been doing drugs. Good Lord, will you listen to us ??!! Why should OWNERS, who pay hefty amounts of money to be in this sport, EVER have to worry about drugged grooms urinating in their horses’ stalls ??? Why would that ever be okay ? Why are these people allowed around these valuable horses ?

It’s very unfortunate that Mr. Serio’s barn made a choice to feed old supplements to a well known, successful show horse, and that they were given incorrect information about its ingredients. But right now, he’s responsible. Not USEF, not busy horse shows, and not drugged grooms.

Enough already.

[vxf111]

The non-horsey farmer dude down the road had his boarder move out and offered to let me come get, for free, all the random year-old supplement buckets that were left behind. I thanked him for the offer but told him to just toss them because no one would feed a horse year-old supplements. Little did I know. Really super fancy top flight AA-rated show pros feed their horse custy year-old supplements that have been baking in the storage area of the trailer.

Maybe that’s what I’ve been doing wrong this whole time?

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=kenyarider;8270050]
The trainer and the owner should and do know what’s going on with these horses and if they don’t, they need to hire someone to monitor their animals at all times to prevent this kind of event. For pete’s sake. . . .[/QUOTE]

Well, the person you are suggesting these owners and trainers hire to monitor their animals already exists. It’s the person who is supposed to sign on the line as “trainer” on the entry forms.

The fact that many owners and trainers may not be using that signature line as it is intended doesn’t mean there isn’t already a system in place to do exactly what you are suggesting.

[alittlegray]

[QUOTE=Janet;8269811]
The OWNER is definitely NOT suspended.

But it says

GR703.1.c says

GR704.1 (quoted in my earlier post) makes it clear that being a family member of the suspended trainer showing the horse involved in the suspension constitutes being

So i think they are going to have to find another rider.[/QUOTE]

I have one who would be happy to go around with NO drugs on board. I’d bet she would have a long line of other juniors behind her, certainly not implying they will have trouble finding someone else to ride Inclusive.

Bit of a tough ride without the gaba? Night time class under the lights or indoors? Whatever. Horses do not HAVE to be drugged to get around, if you have done your homework before coming to the show with your flatwork and behavior training. Confidence and trust in its rider, despite a potentially “spooky” atmosphere will help a horse immensely. Has the horse shown you over a couple years that despite proper training and socialization that it doesn’t like the job? Then find it a home/career where it can be a happy horse and turn your attention to another horse. Had Inclusive been a tough ride before Tori got on it? I don’t know, as I have no idea of the horse’s back story.

I know with the big money involved, it costs me nothing to say the above and there is $$$$ invested in these important show horses. However it would be nice to know that the competition is not basing their big wins on how much chemical romance it can pump in to the horses in their care.

That isn’t “winning,” it is just cheating. Period.

[2LaZ2race]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8270114]
[/I][/COLOR]

People drive under the influence of stuff ALL.THE.TIME. Not just alcohol, but sedatives, prescription meds, etc.[/QUOTE]

Wow… I think you need to log off for a while. Are you CWI (COTHing while intoxicated) ??

Horses shouldn’t be drugged and neither should people. {the end}

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=2LaZ2race;8270158]
Wow… I think you need to log off for a while. Are you CWI (COTHing while intoxicated) ??

Horses shouldn’t be drugged and neither should people. {the end}[/QUOTE]

Nope, not intoxicated, I really just hate illogical arguments. A lot of people don’t seem to care about that, though. They just accept any old comment as valid.

There is an ideal world and there is reality. I choose to understand that I live in the real world and scary sh#t happens all around me, all the time. The driver in front of me just might be texting. The one behind me might be on prescribed medication that that aren’t supposed to drive on but they do anyway. I don’t condone the behavior, but I do recognize it.

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=2LaZ2race;8270158]
Wow… I think you need to log off for a while. Are you CWI (COTHing while intoxicated) ??

Horses shouldn’t be drugged and neither should people. {the end}[/QUOTE]

Saying that an action occurs doesn’t mean that someone is condoning it

[findeight]

[QUOTE=Peggy;8270026]

Aside from the Jayne anomaly, I wonder why the seven-month suspensions of the two Inclusive suspendees don’t cover the same time period, though they do overlap.
.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that’s weird, same offense, same show, same hearing…different start and end dates for the suspensions. By a couple of months. Explain that please, somebody???

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Peggy;8270026]
GABA is not the same as gabapentin. Though, if you want to believe Wikipedia, and an unreferenced portion of the gabapentin article at that, gabapentin was developed to mimic the structure of the GABA, though it was later found to act on different receptors. Gabapentin has a ring fused into the four-carbon chain that’s in GABA.

Whether you have glutamic acid or glutamate (the G of MSG) is going to depend on the pH. When MSG hits the acidic environment in the stomach, it’s all going to get converted to glutamic acid.

Aside from the Jayne anomaly, I wonder why the seven-month suspensions of the two Inclusive suspendees don’t cover the same time period, though they do overlap.

The letter/FB post (and now Serio comments on the Chronicle FB post about the suspensions) remind me vaguely of some of the excuses I get when students get caught cheating.[/QUOTE]

+100

The letters and explanations from the Serio’s sound exactly like what you said. Just like spoiled kids who backpedal when they get caught doing something they shouldn’t have been doing.

[Limerick]

There have been several GABA suspensions. Winn, Bibby, and now Tommy. This is the first one that has stated the GABA was in a supplement. Is USEF checking (I am assuming they are) the level of GABA in the blood? Surely, the other tests (those done with Carolina Gold in the original USEF study) and the subsequent ones that never said it was in a supplement) would have higher levels than the Serio tests? I am guessing the GABA was a percentage of the Tranquility supplement but the main component in Carolina Gold.

And this article, from 2012, stated that Tranquility contained GABA. So if one were googling more info on Tranquility in 2014…

http://www.dressagelife.net/2012/02/rundown-of-gaba-carolina-gold-new.html

i would like to know when they re formulated Tranquility to remove the GABA. Surely, it was in 2013?