Schleese saddles

[Scribbler]

@sparkygrace

My only experience with Schleese was years ago when their local rep took measurements of my non-Schleese saddle and had me ship it to Canada for an adjustment. My mare was young and developing. Six months after getting the saddle back, it didn’t fit. It cost big $$$ for that adjustment. I have avoided anything Schleese since.

If you want to see what saddles are unpopular, look at Ebay or Facebook Saddle selling groups. You will see lots of Schleeses.

When there’s lots of a given saddle on used it can also mean that they dominate the high end market and people sell when they get a new horse, like with CWD currently. But one warning sign is when lots of people are selling expensive semi-custom saddles “nearly new in perfect condition only ridden for one month.” That’s a giveaway the saddle never fit and they need to offload it fast. Whereas I think the CWD leather wears out fast and they get upgraded continuously because if your horse cost $100,000 what’s another 8k for a new saddle?

Posters upthread confirmed my thoughts that Schleese trees are vulnerable not so much because they are plastic or composite but because the fitters are so frequently using the press on the wither gullet. Once might be ok. Every six months is not. No tree can take that indefinitely.

[eightpondfarm]

question:
When you warm up a petroleum based synthetic it is malleable. When cooled it keeps that shape.
Well, same with metals too.

Do their re-forming devices not heat the tree first?

[lazaret]

No. This used to be the way that a few saddles worked, like Kieffer and Prestige. Those also had a limited number of adjustments in their lifetime.

Most composite trees today still have a steel plate. It’s a lot of stress on one area and the stirrup bars have to bolt to something solid, especially if the tree has flex, which many do. Carbon fiber has been used as a partial composite supplement but now you’re talking $$$.

The only real difference between changing a tree in a press and the gullet bars is you can theoretically make smaller adjustments to the tree in the press. That is why things like the TreeClix system have been invented, to save the trees from the stress of adjustments.

[J-Lu]

Well, I just purchased a used Schleese Origado.

I know the fitter was OBVIOUSLY trying to sell me a saddle out of my price range originally, and the trainer I’m now working with is a Schleese aficionado. Anyway, my horse has large shoulders and a short back, and this model really seemed to fit him. I did a test ride in the expensive demo model and he really seemed to be freer in in.

I purchased an Obrigado online from a guy who purchased it for his tank of a horse. I did a trial and sent pics of the saddle and it’s serial # to the fitter who comes and she said it would work for my horse. The fitter adjusted the tree to my horse and when I got on to ride, she said “no no, get off” because it was pitching me forward. She reflocked the saddle to better fit rider balance and adjusted the knee rolls to better fit me. I really like it but like my previous saddle better. My horse goes noticeably better in this saddle and the sweat marks show that the Shoulder Relief really does give his shoulders more relief.

Since I purchased it from a private owner, it isn’t under Schleese warranty and I could always choose to just take it to a regular fitter for flocking changes.

Some people outside of this trainer just love Schleese and have been riding in them for decades. One of those people is on this board (ridden to GP) and sent me a pic recently of her amazing, amazingly snazzy new-to-her saddle.

I’ll comment on @Scribbler 's post that I don’t think that people selling expensive semi-custom saddles hardly ridden in is a warning. Many buying an expensive semi-custom saddle makes sure it fits and are knowledgeable enough to discuss things with the fitter. It’s not uncommon that wealthy ammies go to a fitting and just buy saddles without the knowledge to really explain to the fitter what isn’t working about the fit. Or they purchased it because their trainer only rides in that brand and got caught up in the moment, and they actually like the saddle they are used to. In my experience, relatively few people spend $$$ on a custom of semi-custom saddle and then never use it and try to sell it. This is just my experience.

[eightpondfarm]

My coach rides in Schleese and wholeheartedly approves of them. Which is what prompted me to join into this fit-a-thon thing i’m going to.

[J-Lu]

@eightpondfarm

@lazaret

It’s unlikely that they will share with you measurements taken for a custom saddle order if you do not go through with the order.

Well, i’m not actually ordering. I think they realize that?? I signed up for a regional come-one/come-all fitting. Paid 180 for the privilege. I asked they please bring along the two models i thought look interesting to me, and they confirmed they would have them.
So, what i can get out of this???
-Maaaybe i will walk away with some measurements? I was expecting to have this, but now my expectations have been properly ‘managed’…lol
-i’ll be able to try out various styles of dressage saddles…with big bucket seat and with knee rolls too. Maybe my body is not as put-off by them as my mind thinks i am.
-My mare will get to see a new barn and have a bit of ring experience in the only 3rd place she’s ever been in her life. (vet/my farm/where we haul to lessons…not counting my farm, so 3 outside)
-I will bump elbows with other dressage people in this area, rather a ‘soft’ introduction as i work my way very gradually toward entering a show.

I did a fitting with Schleese just to try their Obrigado.

They took measurements of my horse’s back and adjusted their demo model to my horse for me to ride in. They took measurements of me as well and advised me on ideal flap length, seat size, etc if I was to order a fully custom saddle. I said that wasn’t going to happen and she advised me of what ranges would likely work for me in used saddles. She also told me the features that my horse would really need (shoulder relief, the upswept panel of the Obrigado) and why. I actually got a lot out of this conversation. Of course they give you a copy of all of the measurements and they keep the original so you can always call to ask. My horse really liked the saddle which put it to the front of my radar.

I knew I wanted to try the Obrigado and they confirmed that this was the best model for my horse. They will talk to you about your riding goals, measure you and measure your horse and give you informed decisions about models. Ask a lot of questions. A lot of questions.

Be prepared for a hard sell. My fitter went out of her way to sell me the $$$ demo to which I said “did I not say it is out of my price range?” a couple of times. Then she tried to sell me a new all-purpose saddle ‘in my price range’ saying that I could jump too (!!) and I replied curtly “did I not say I want a dressage saddle?”. She backed off. She later told me at the latest fitting that I did a good job in finding a used saddle. The fitting was pricey and she was defensive when I asked her what all the charges were for, but I honestly think that is her personality. I’m very pleased with how she fit the saddle to me and my horse and answering my many questions about the product, the fit and even saddle pads. The other people I know that she fits are also very happy with her work.

So, that’s my experience with Schleese. You’ll get something for your $180, don’t be afraid to make the most of your appt!

At the end of the day, my horse seems to be freer in this saddle and that is what is most important.

[Buster]

That is such a helpful, well thought out and honest but fair review. My experience with their fitters has been much the same.

[Scribbler]

That’s all good to hear @J-Lu! Sounds like it could be a useful day for @eightpondfarm.

I do think if the Schleese tree is a good fit for your horse, they will be as good a choice as any of the other semi custom high end dressage saddles.

[hut-ho78]

I think the Schleese saddles work for some horses and the fitters are key. They have a wide gullet with some horses really like. That can also give them a tendency to wobble around in the back, depending on the horse. My saddle fitting book (the one by Joyce Harman) cautioned about that (not for a Schleese, just for that issue).

I had a used one for a while. My horse loved it. I loved it. Her back developed like crazy and it needed adjustments. The fitters were fantastic. It was fit for one shoulder being less developed than the other and as that shoulder developed, it l became very uncomfortable for her. The tree did break and they replaced the tree no charge (used and per their website no longer under warranty). She eventually outgrew it which was good in that she was developing correctly.

The fitters moved on and the “new” Schleese fitters were um not confidence inspiring. So, my take is when they fit horse and rider, they are very very good. The rest of the experience depends on the fitter. J was very professional and helpful.

A friend of mine had four Schleeses and loved them. She now has a custom saddle from another brand for her current horse.

I like a lot of room in the saddle, a flatter seat, and no blocks. I found a Dover Circuit Premiere that she likes with a spring tree and wool flocking that has helped and found my horse had some issues I hope we have fixed (rehabbing now).

I wonder if warmbloods have been bred for such bigger movement that saddles are harder to fit. I also wonder if saddles fit too well and there isn’t enough room for full movement and body changes.

I noticed my oldest saddles have slightly wider gullets than my later saddles and now there are different gullet sizes. Some fitters say they don’t need a wider gullet. Some say they do. My experience is just to try to find something the horse and I seem to feel comfortable in and find the best fitter for your horse that you can.

Good luck.

[atr]

So, its $180 for you to go to them and have them hard-sell you?

For that, I’d at least expect them to come to me. I hope you get lunch…

These folks should be selling timeshares for a living.

[eightpondfarm]

yeah, i know. i feel so stupid.

[Pezanos]

Don’t feel stupid. 1) you were trying to do the right thing and 2) think of all the new stuff you just learned.

[J-Lu]

Don’t feel stupid. You will get more out of the fitting than a ťypical fitting. You’ll get numbers. Work with them to make the most out of your experience.

[Buster]

Don’t feel stupid. The company does have a bad rap, no doubt! However, even though I’m not their biggest fan, I have ridden in saddles of theirs that I liked. I do have many friends that ride in them that love them. Friends that are actually doing things, advancing horses up the levels and showing, even trainer friends. So it’s not like you can’t possibly come away with some good information or even a saddle that works for you and your horse. Just go in forewarned, eyes wide open, take your time with it and you’ll be fine.

[atr]

Oh, heck, no, don’t feel stupid! it’ll be an interesting experience, you might get lucky and find something you and your horse both love, you’ll meet some new people, and you’ll get your horse out on a field trip, which is worth a bit!

We want a report back, though.

[Jo]

@eightpondfarm

well, now i’m discouraged. Truth is, i’m a sucker waiting to be fleeced. I know NOTHING about good saddles.

Spend some time on the internet reading all you can about saddle fit. Panther Run Saddlery is a good place to start. She (Kitt) also used to post here a LOT. If you are a bit educated heading into your shopping/fitting, it will save you a lot of money and headache.

If you have the option, work with an independent fitter who isn’t associated with a particular brand. If you post your location, I’m sure someone here can make a recommendation. This is what got me out of my Schleese nightmare - educating myself and working with an independent fitter.

[DawnJL]

Kitt is my fitter (and also a friend). She’s definitely not a fan of Schleese. Kitt knows some fitters around the US and is happy to refer folks to one in their area if she knows of any. She was part of the original Trumbull Mountain saddle fitting team before the original owner passed away and sold the business.

Panther Run Saddlery (facebook)
Kitt’s old blog

[cnm161]

I’ve had really good luck with Schleese over the years, although I’ve always been in a dressage hinterlands so am more likely to interact with the pragmatic meet-you-where-you-are fitters vs. the hard-sell crew.

I have had a few of their saddles (bc despite promotional material, no one saddle will fit all horses), and have only had one tree issue (head plate needed to be replaced; however, I had bought the ~10yr old saddle used and do not know its fitting or care history). Problems from the past (very heavy saddles, very long panels, etc.) have been designed out with the newer generation of saddles.

I will say the head office appears to be slow to respond, but the traveling fitters I’ve seen over the years have been very good. Again, though, not a prime-markets kind of location so it’s possible I’m not getting the glossy and corporate schtick crew. I typically get mine re-checked once or twice a year, and not quarterly as is current business model.

Am surprised at the nameplate-swap mentions above; that’s not consistent with my experience. It’s also kind of ridiculous as a strategy bc “real” Schleese saddles don’t just have a nameplate, they have lots of details (serial no, model, year, seat size and tree length, logo, etc.) stamped on the underside of the left flap. I guess there’s shady dealings everywhere.

[Saskatoonian]

After this discussion especially I’m sure you’re going to this event with your eyes open, so probably don’t need a reminder that if the written terms of whatever you sign vary from what the rep has told you, it will at least be an uphill battle to enforce the rep’s promises. Good luck.

[sascha]

@cnm161

Am surprised at the nameplate-swap mentions above; that’s not consistent with my experience.

This was absolutely 100% something they did back about 25(? - getting too old to pin dates on events anymore lol) years ago. If anyone tells you they did not do it, they are lying through their teeth.

And then there’s this:

@cnm161

I have had a few of their saddles (bc despite promotional material, no one saddle will fit all horses), and have only had one tree issue

How many of us have owned many and varied saddles over the years and for many years at that and NEVER had a problem with any tree. They should not break under normal use.