Don’t forget upper-level eventers dropping down. The top riders can now achieve 70%+ from ‘pure’ dressage judges. That could widen your options.
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The only person I’ve seen complain about others leasing/buying a schoolmaster is Maestro Nick Peronace.
Sour grapes is exactly spot on there.
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I think there are people who believe that buying a schoolmaster is maybe not cheating, but doing it the easy way. Anyone who has ever gotten on a schoolmaster trained to several levels above them knows it’s not an easy ride for a while.
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My vet regularly says how I’m keeping my guy’s front legs in fantastic shape (previous track injuries on both front fetlocks) by doing dressage. It also keeps them using their body more symmetrically and utilizing strength to carry. All things that are great for their bodies.
Horses get arthritis from use, just like people (and every other animal with joints).
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I’ve told this on COTH before, but I rode on the IDA team in college.They put me on a retired PSG horse who was new to the program and rumored to have a bit of a buck. It was my first time ever swinging a leg over a horse of that quality and certainly was the most educated horse I ever rode at that point. Prior to that my riding career consisted of riding TBs, QHs, and Thelwell ponies.
I got into the saddle, collected the reins, and the horse started piaffing off the block. I couldn’t stop him. He kept going in not-very-fast circles and it seemed like the more leg I gave him the springier he got. I spent the next six months riding that horse and he spent the next six months devising new ways to laugh at my incompetence. He was one of the most challenging horses I have ever ridden in terms of the pure core muscles you needed – and the sheer accuracy and finesse of your aids – to get the right response. He taught me more than any other horse and I only rode him a very short period of time.
Anyone who feels that it is the easy way probably feels slighted it is not an opportunity offered to them. People ought to enjoy their journeys in any way they can and sometimes the best way to learn how to do something new is to ride a horse that already knows what you’re doing.
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Mid teens and sound enough for Fourth is still a very sought after horse and you can expect to pay appropriately. At age 18+ The price will drop, and it drops way more at age 20+
Mine have both been in their 20s - one was between $5-10k and one was well under 5. I looked at one who was 18 or 19, minimal maintenance, easily capable of showing Fourth and schooling GP and it was $25k. At 16 the same horse was around $50k. Of course I’m sure this varies a lot depending where you live too
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I’ve spent the last few months going through that kind of humbling experience with my new schoolmaster, Beowulf.
Either I’ve dumbed him down or I’m getting better, but I can now consistently get a right lead canter vs. a passage or, horrors, a Spanish walk 
My last horse and I were schooling all of third but with a sticky change in one direction, and really struggling with day-to-day soundness issues. We weren’t going anywhere further, and at the age of 60, like it or not, Tempus is Fugitting, rather.
So with this guy, I’ve just bitten the financial and time management bullet and gone into full training with a very good coach who gets on him regularly (and with a great deal of enjoyment) to keep him tuned up, and teaches me on him the rest of the time.
Apart from being much loved and spoiled rotten, he gets careful maintenance and nutrition and shoeing and a custom saddle and regular prayers offered up for his wellbeing, so I think he’s doing OK out of the deal…
Mine’s 13, shown to I-1, has passage, started piaffe and some tempis, a bit of an off-breed, has a bit of a brain-fried spook in him so needs a thoughtful, sensitive ride, and wouldn’t pass a vet in a way that could potentially prove a longer term limiting factor, (or might not, who knows?) and he was low 5-figures, if that helps.
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This was a few years ago now. But I paid 10k for a 22 year old GP schoolmaster. He flexed sound on his vet check and I never bothered with xrays.
He was a bit neurotic on the ground and in the paddock. But a super ride. Very tolerant and forgiving and really made me sharpen up my aids.
I rode him until he was 25. Then he had to have a break because of my health. It was the worst thing for him because he went downhill after he essentially retired. Hubby hated riding him and we weren’t in the financial position to keep him boarded where there was somewhere to ride. No one wanted to lease him because of his age, despite being sound as a bell and very keen to work.
Best money I had spent in a very long time.
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I have had a similarly humbling experience. Passage was his happy place, and flying changes. Happy to do shoulder-in or haunches-in. A plain medium trot or a canter on the same lead for any length of time took me like three lessons to master. What a rush though.
OP, if you’re looking for a bargain horse then you’re looking for a horse where you will be probably retiring it when you are done, and in the 18+ year old range, and maybe some careful maintenance or some lost points due to some stiffness, and probably a situation best found by word of mouth for someone who can trust you to care for a horse they value. Mid teens competitive at 4th level suitable for an amateur rider and sound is essentially a primetime dressage horse.
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I promise you that it is unlikely you’ll get past 1st level (most don’t). You and your horses are safe.
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The difference in wear and tear on the body between lower level dressage and Grand Prix dressage is like the difference between someone who runs 5k a few times a week for fitness and a serious marathon runner.
Yes dressage helps them use their bodies correctly, but it’s still a sport, and at the high levels the horses really are top level athletes. And that increases the wear and tear on the joints so many people prefer to do some ongoing maintenance to prevent arthritis and keep the horse working comfortably well into their 20s
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LOL…Pretty sure you’re right! And well, i may never go into a show at all actually. So far, i’ve not even been able to go and watch one…so even making it into Intro A will be a serious undertaking for me. I might be able to phone a test in though… I might could do that.
That’s useful nuance. I’m not looking for a bargain per se (I mean, that would be cool), but just looking for a sense of what the market is like. I have a good sense of what the equivalent h/j horse would cost (and it makes me queasy), but I’m less experienced in the dressage market.
Oh it’s 100% people at lower levels who overestimate their own riding level and assume anyone competing higher is cheating. I’ve never met someone riding upper levels who thought riding a schoolmaster is cheating with all those pushbutton schoolmasters that apparently exist. I’ve never ever met an upper level rider who has that attitude. I’ve even met upper level riders who have stated that when they were younger they thought they were so much better than the other young riders for crudely training their own horse when they now admit that their education would’ve gone a lot smoother and faster if they had ridden schoolmasters and learned correctly on an educated horse from the beginning. How in the world are people expected to train upper level movements correctly if they have never ridden it on a schooled horse? It’s like trying to build a piece of IKEA furniture without a manual and no picture of the finished piece.
As someone who is currently showing 3rd on an PSG schoolmaster, it totally grinds my gears when people insinuate that my horse somehow has third level memorized and all I do is take a seat (yes, I have gotten told this before by a first level rider). I mean if my horse already knew third level by heart then what am I doing taking two lessons a week?!
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Some visitors to the Portuguese farm where I was having a vacation, riding the lovely Lusitano horses, with dressage lessons and hacking out each day, said “Ah, now we understand. The trainer says do something and the horse does it”. One of the biggest complements of my riding life.
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IF you can find something in this market, $25k minimum for warmblood, maybe less for tb or off breed. I’ve seen up to $65k
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And it’s about more than the buttons. Until I finally got to Third I had no idea how different EVERYTHING is at that level. And I assume the difference continues as you progress up each level.
A Third level trot is not at all the same thing as a First Level trot, and it takes a huge amount of core strength and hip mobility just to ride it correctly. As a rider, everything is far more athletic and challenging and then on top of the strength and stamina needed, you have to somehow find the balance, subtlety, and independence of all your body parts from one another while riding that athletic trot to give the very precise correct cues a schoolmaster expects.
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I don’t think it’s cheating. I think it’s going for the win. Not my goal/not my process, but fine by me if it is yours. Dressage, for me, is not a competitive event, and i admit, my thinking on this is not normal.
hmmm…well. IF i ever get anywhere, (upper level), showing my horse(s) it will not be because i have crudely trained them. It will be because i have ridden them exclusively under the watchful eye of a kind professional. I don’t care how people get to where they want to go in the sport as long as no horse gets hurt in the process. You want to buy a horse who has already been trained GREAT! I want to go be the one and only rider of a feral mustang, GREAT! What i think of your journey is none of your business. And what you think of mine, none of my business. We all have our own way for our own reasons.
That said, i find zero moral issue with people buying trained horses.
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Eightpond you really have a way of consistently hijacking threads. It’s considered Proper to begin a separate thread if an off topic question will take more than a response to address.
OP depending on a million factors I think $35-50k could get you a lovely horse. You may have to ride quite precisely for medal scores or have unique quirks but I think mid teens a lot of sellers start thinking about a final home over getting maximum price.
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