Selevit Injectable

I don’t know if you are specifically referring to equine chiropractors or not. I will say that any research study on human chiros is immaterial to me, because I am very sure that mine save my quality of life, and potentially my life, period.

However!

As in every human element, there is a continuum of ability. I have had a fantastic chiro, some that were pretty useless, and some that terrified me. I don’t know how well we are able to judge that when they work on horses, nor do I know how much damage could be caused before we learned which chiro was which…

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I think it’s wild that the USEF would even ask owners to sign something like that. So the USEF could literally decide to intentionally euthanize your horse on the spot during a competition and you’d have no say in it? They shouldn’t be asking owners to agree to that.

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Yes, I suppose they could. I see the reasons for having some type of a blanket release, when you’re all the way on the other side of the world in a different time zone from the owner of the horse, anything can happen and there could be any type of an emergency. But in the case of something that’s elective and off label and so forth and really, it doesn’t sound like it was necessary and in this case and not urgent, there was plenty of time for them to contact the owner and or the regular veterinarian and discuss it.

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Has anyone linked the form yet? ATTACHMENT G (usef.org)

It sounds like when the USET no longer had horses donated where they owned them, they moved to a sort of lease structure where if they are financing the competition, they are leasing the horse and take on the ability and responsibility of management. I don’t see that it says they are allowed to administer meds without disclosing them, just that they can.

I am sure the cost of sending a team to a competition is significant enough that it makes sense that you need to have the management and care of the horses decided by the professionals chosen for the team, rather than risking that they get halfway across the world and, say, the vet at home vetoes icing feet because he doesn’t believe in it or whatever. I think theres a very reasonable interpretation here that just wasn’t what went down in this instance.

I know when I talked to a former team vet, he said the hardest part of the job was that every horse in his care had a fleet of people who had spent their whole lives trying to produce a horse to that level and were deeply passionate and invested in the outcome, but may or may not be operating under the same set of facts and depth of experience that he had. I think that was in the context of a shoeing change that he mentioned it, but at least it hasn’t historically been the practice that this agreement was used in an effort to keep everyone in the dark.

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*ETA - never mind. Apparently Snyder wasn’t the longtime vet, and that information circulating is inaccurate.

In the case of Chromatic, I read that his longtime vet is Jack Snyder… who has been a team vet in the past. I would think there must have been communication between Snyder and Ulibarri, as they both probably understand the rules and process at this level. Obviously something went tragically wrong and all signs point to a sudden reaction to the IV injection the horse was given minutes before it died. And I can definitely understand the owner being distraught and having questions. But… it seems like there are a lot of unclear aspects of the situation beyond that.

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Jack Snyder was most definitely not Chromatic BF’s longtime vet.

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Huh. I’ll edit my post and note that. Never mind that thought then.

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This was my thought too. Why would anyone trust USEF with one of these ‘loans’ after this? These horses are worth millions of dollars. Yeah, there’s some prestige that comes with riding for the USA, but if it comes at the cost of them being able to inject whatever majikal concoction they have come up with that day without your knowledge or consent, why would ANYONE agree to that?

I can show in prestigious classes without signing my horses’ life over.

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This is concerning to me, as well. I absolutely believe the injection killed the horse (and I just had a conversation about this w my vet this morning). The owner did ask that nothing be done without her consent. Now what? I don’t know…. It’s just terrible and stupid they would use a medication like that PRRIOD. Sue for negligence???

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But… looking at the attachment linked above by @Railbird … I wonder if the owner will be able to sue USEF? It seems like an owner would have to sue the attending vet.

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IANAL but I expect it would come down to who had care, custody, and control of the horse at the time, and it sounds like the USEF management team was calling the shots (no pun intended.)

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These snippets are taken from someone’s post on the Branscomb FB page, in response to USEF’s recent change of course.
"What happened to just saying i’m so deeply sorry. AND followed with “whatever we can do to discover fault and control circumstances so this never happens again- we will do.”

A personal response like that would be nice if it were possible, but it isn’t.
If you slip and fall in a grocery store, the management will not say they’re sorry, even if
the manager is sorry that it happened to you.
I was taught early on in a customer service industry that saying you’re sorry to a customer who may have an injury or loss, is the equivalent of saying “We were responsible”.
We were never to say “I’m sorry” to a customer.

“This is an obvious CYA action, advised by lawyers to limit accountability,”

Yes, it is, and unfortunately it’s standard operating procedure.

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Interestingly, hospitals adopted the say nothing approach to avoid lawsuits, but it’s of dubious value.
Patients who were victims of errors want an apology.

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But then why would the groom call the rider
CORRECTION owner distressed over the vet request to inject the horse?

And how exactly did the shot occur if the groom called the rider CORRECTION owner and the rider CORRECTION owner expressed that it wasn’t necessary… How then did the horse end up getting injected?

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The groom called the owner, not the rider.

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Thanks, I’ll correct my question

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I read that comment differently. I thought she was referring to FEI jogs - to check soundness. I saw comments from Rudy Leone (I think) about how the horse’s connections all had nerves about it passing the jogs. Which goes back to the whole question of whether or not the horse was having soundness issues, and was the horse on an intense medication/management plan, and did that somehow relate in some way to whatever went wrong in Riyadh.

I don’t think anyone was accusing the groom of any wrongdoing. But maybe I’m misunderstanding. Totally possible. There are a lot of comments about this situation from different people that are somewhat confusing/unclear.

It seems from the most recent reports that the groom called the owner because the USEF team vet (or someone related) came to get the horse for treatment post ride, and that wasn’t something the groom was anticipating. Apparently all treatments were supposed to be run by the horse’s longtime vet or the horse’s owner before they were given. From the reports, it sounds like the owner arrived at the barn almost immediately after an IV injection was given, and the horse died shortly thereafter.

It’s unclear if the owner spoke with anyone immediately before the IV shot was given, and told anyone it wasn’t necessary. Her initial statements in April immediately following the tragedy are different than her recent statements following the release of the necropsy report.

There doesn’t seem like there have been any public statements from either the horse’s longtime vet or the vet who actually treated him in Riyadh. Only from the head vet for USEF.

Likely everyone will stop talking now that there is potential litigation.

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Curious what makes you say this. Comments on FB from the owner in May, and common knowledge in the area have him as the longtime vet.

I have no skin in the game other than being generally horrified.

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Well for a start he lives in Wellington FL and is no longer affiliated with UCD, which is a several hours anyway from the farm. They use a local vet.