Self-policing is not working

[SoCoPony]

Sounds like OP maybe needs a new hobby.

But I am just a horse of course.

[Paint_Party]

So if I buy a young horse, am I expected to never sell it? Am I supposed to keep and maintain it until it dies a natural death in posh retirement? Just want to clarify my moral obligations.

[Scribbler]

@Paint_Party

So if I buy a young horse, am I expected to never sell it? Am I supposed to keep and maintain it until it dies a natural death in posh retirement? Just want to clarify my moral obligations.

What all the “lifetime home” or “no breeding” folks in all pet categories fail to understand is that if no one creates or sells animals, then no one can acquire them. And no, there aren’t enough feral Mustangs and chipibblecorso crosses at the pound to fill the need for performance horses and family pets. Besides there’s a whole “don’t take Mustangs off the range” thing too.

But your beloved pet horse heart horse lifetime horse is with you because someone did “rehome” him.

[GraceLikeRain]

@NotOK

My loudest troll rants are nothing compared to what will descend when all the crap people whisper about is exposed and the average person latches on. It will come to this; I wish it wouldn’t have to, but it is a matter of when not if at this point.

The drugging or exploitation of an animal used for a luxury support is a one day headline. Maybe it is a sensational documentary if the details are shocking enough.

There is nothing you or anyone else can say that will light a proverbial fire under the average Joe’s butt to give a rats ass about the horse industry.

I have a whole lot of unsavory knowledge about a whole lot of wealthy horse people. There is nothing that I can do with that information other than black list myself and tarnish my own reputation. Wealthy people are Teflon to accountability. It’s just the way the world works. You can hate it all you want but ranting and airing dirty laundry has done little to change things.

[Paint_Party]

@Scribbler

But your beloved pet horse heart horse lifetime horse is with you because someone did “rehome” him.

I have my nice young horse because someone purposely bred him and sold him. At some point, I won’t be physically able to ride and compete him anymore. I’m not going to retire him. I’ll sell him to someone younger and perhaps more novice who can enjoy and appreciate a safe, fully trained horse. Who knows. With his fabulous disposition, maybe he’ll eventually end up in the recently christened “cruel ring.”

[StormyDay]

@2bayboys

@NotOK

Thank you. I don’t disagree with anything you said except that I commonly see “step down” horses that should honestly be retired and still have to carry someone, usually a terrible rider, over several over fence classes at a lot of shows. The saintly ones are the most open to abuse because they will go and try no matter how broken they are. For this reason alone, I really would like more oversight. Again, I see these abuses in other disciplines, but no one shows as much as the HJ crowd. Moreover, jumping is just harder on them even at lower levels than training level dressage (where many other poor old lame ones find themselves).

I think your biggest disconnect is your assumption that retirement is a better option than continuing as a show horse. As if horses who retire all go off to mythical green pastures and live under rainbows and with butterflies while all of their health and care needs are maintained forever.

This scenario happens for the tiniest minority.

I’m of the opinion that a creaky serviceably sound older horse has a much better life in the working world, where he will still have access to the care and veterinary attention that a show horse receives. Not a “retirement farm” where he is probably turned out in the bugs and all weather and where the least expensive level of care (shoeing, meds maintenance etc) is the norm.

I’m no longer sound despite all of the medical intervention I have at my disposal, yet I keep going and I’m glad that I can. I try to keep that in mind as I make decisions about what my horses can keep doing as they age.

Also, some horses just don’t want to retire. I have a 23 YO gelding who owes me absolutely nothing. Since he was 18, every year I’ve said ‘this is probably the last show year’ and every year he’s proven me wrong. He throws an all out fit if he doesn’t get on the trailer with everyone else. The last show I went to, as I was leaving the ring with him, a spectator said ‘I’ve never seen a horse be so proud of himself. He knows he won.’

He’s stepped down in height a lot. We do 2ft or 2’3 if he’s feeling good. It would be easier to point out the joints that don’t have arthritis. His trot is a little gimpy. There are shows we go to and he never competes because he’s not feeling it that day. He probably will go to shows until the day he dies, even if it’s just for me to look like a dork competing against children in the cross rail jumpers, because it makes him happy.

I actually have two horses like this. Both are 23. Both would much rather be ridden than not. My 3rd 23 year old would rather enjoy his retirement, so that’s what he does.

[173north]

Leaving aside OP’s tone… I do see plenty of unsound, footsore or NQR horses at shows.

I don’t care if it’s a slightly creaky senior horse in the 2 ft classes. But I recently saw a BNT send a junior into the ring on a horse that was 2/5 or 3/5 lame on the right front. Very visible for six or seven strides of trot before she picked up canter to jump her course. I was like, eh, maybe it took a bad step walking into the ring, it happens? But then the round was posted on Instagram, gimpy trot included. So.

[fivestrideline]

@173north

I do see plenty of unsound, footsore or NQR horses at shows.

See, this is a point I’d be willing to engage with! What constitutes “serviceably sound” and what is stopping judges from not pinning horses that are clearly off? Can they see it? Or is the language in the rule book vague enough to be hard (as a judge) to make that call? What can we do to at least ensure horses that are pinning are sound?

ETA not just in H/J. I’ve seen horses in dressage shows that are off, until they’re cranked into a false frame and “held together”. I don’t like that either. Eventing I no longer watch enough to have an observation.

[Mardi1]

re: Video of the Grand Junior Hunter. To me this gorgeous horse looks heavy, and not in an athletic way.
Contrasted to upper level dressage horses, who may look fat, but in reality are muscled like body builders if their training has been correct. Yes I understand that UL dressage horses do different things than top hunters.

[StormyDay]

@Mardi1

re: Video of the Grand Junior Hunter. To me this gorgeous horse looks heavy, and not in an athletic way.
Contrasted to upper level dressage horses, who may look fat, but in reality are muscled like body builders if their training has been correct. Yes I understand that UL dressage horses do different things than top hunters.

She’s a thick girl, I won’t disagree with that. She’s got a big ol booty. But in hunters that gives her the ability to jump these jumps from a slow speed and look good. Putting her on a diet isn’t going to get rid of her genetics.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Neither. Another country.

[Janet]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

It’s fine when you’re in your 20s to say the horse comes first, but when someone is in their 50s or 60s and is facing retirement, aging spouses and parents, then the perspective changes.

I don’t know about that.

MY perspective hasn’t changed. I am in my late 60s, already retired, with an also aging spouse (no parents).

I currently have 2 pasture ornaments.

One, age 12, has been a pasture ornament (and now a stall ornament) since she was 9, with poll evil and more recently, Insulin Resistance, so she is only allowed out in the eaten - down paddock 1-2 hrs a day, with a muzzle. She as never been a pleasure to ride, but I never considered trying to sell her.

The other one, aged 27 has a ligament injury in her fetlock, which is taking forever to heal. I still hope she comes sound, but if she doesn’t, it won’t change anything.

Of my previous horses, one died at 36, after being retired at 18. The other one died at 34, after being retired at 27.

It never occurred to me NOT to keep them and care for them (I owned 2 of them from yearlings).

I have also bought young horses to train and sell. I bought them as yearlings or weanlings, and sold them at 5 or 6.

Being responsible about retirement does not preclude buying, training, and selling young stock.

[Janet]

@StormyDay

She’s a thick girl, I won’t disagree with that. She’s got a big ol booty. But in hunters that gives her the ability to jump these jumps from a slow speed and look good. Putting her on a diet isn’t going to get rid of her genetics.

But it would make her a lot healthier.

[Janet]

Plus ca change-
Not only Jean Doty’s “Monday Horse”, but also “Black Beauty”

[Old_Mac_Donald]

I have a mare about to foal. The foal may be born with characteristics rendering it permanently unrideable. Sound and healthy, but unrideable.

What are my moral obligations?

It’s supposed to be an Iberian dressage horse. Does that change things?

[StormyDay]

@Janet

@StormyDay

She’s a thick girl, I won’t disagree with that. She’s got a big ol booty. But in hunters that gives her the ability to jump these jumps from a slow speed and look good. Putting her on a diet isn’t going to get rid of her genetics.

But it would make her a lot healthier.

I guess I just don’t see the fat on her? She looks like a 6 on the score at most. I can see the outline of ribs in her photos. Some horses are just built thick.

[vxf111]

The problem is that sometimes the lame/footsore horse is there with a big/name trainer, and everyone is willing to look the other way a little bit because “it’s just a few stiff steps.” I do not think the problem is SYSTEMIC but I do think there is a lack of objective criteria for lameness and a lack of accountability. It should be ok for officials to spin a horse or two from the ring instead of a scandal resulting in the threat of a lawsuit. I would be ok with random soundness checks like random drug tests, done by a tester who is NOT the judge of that show. I don’t know that it would solve the problem but at least it might shift the heat to someone more equipped to handle it?! Or it just might make more people use drugs to block I don’t know.

[Janet]

@StormyDay

Some horses are just built thick.

Have you been following the threads about Bo and Matilda?

[Nefer008]

Or they are the ones showing lame horses and drugging them.

[StormyDay]

@Janet

@StormyDay

Some horses are just built thick.

Have you been following the threads about Bo and Matilda?

No, can you link me?