Delete

[fairiepony]

delete

[Scribbler]

First, where are the owners in all this?

Second, where is the vet?

You should get an actual Cushings test so you know what you are dealing with and discuss the options with the vet.

There’s no herbal supplement that will cure Cushings. It’s a tumor on the pituary gland.

[Bluey]

@fairiepony

Hey everyone! I am brand new to the forum- My first post. I lease (not own) a 22-23 year old Pinto Arabian gelding named Lucky, and we occasionally show in local pleasure shows (english and western!) But mostly we ride bareback and relax. I call him semi-retired because we aren’t training heavily on a regular basis, but I do still ride him at least once a week- and I am able to see him 4-5 times a week.
He is a generally happy and healthy boy. He always walks up to me, is happy with seeing me and has pep in his step (most of the time). He is well behaved and really the sweetest boy. Which makes me all the more worried about him. (Quick disclaimer, I am a minor and don’t have much control over things, I am just looking to be educated and know what I should do next.(And also to be worried, super worried or just concerned…I am a huge worry wart, lol))
Let’s start with his issues; He had/has some arthritis in his hocks, and he struggled with toe dragging for a little while, he was (and is) getting an effective joint supplement to keep him comfortable, but now his hocks are almost done fusing or have already fused by now, and he doesn’t drag his little toes anymore, and we also did plenty of work with strengthening his hind end with a lot of in-hand and riding work, engaging correctly, pole work etc. (All the good stuff. Stretching and back strengthening as well.) We have corrected that issue, I just have to keep him active and moving his legs, and he enjoys it. (If he has enough energy–We will get to that later.) He used to be quite swaybacked as well, but we have actually added some back muscle on the little old man! His hindquarters are still slightly underdeveloped but we are working on it. He had a chiropractor adjustment, his back and sacrum were out of alignment, which according to the chiropractor was totally normal for a horse like him. He was sore in the croup for a little, but it subsided after some rest and massages.
On to the scarier stuff… After research prompted when he hadn’t been acting ‘quite right’ for a few days in a row, I came to a scary realization. My precious boy has been developing Cushing’s Disease (possibly…) He has the symptoms: Increased drinking, Increased Urination, Lethargy, Dull eyes, fatty deposits above the eyes, increased risk of infection (just got rain rot on his neck and hindquarters… Treating it with MTG, it is going away) coughing, swayback, potbelly appearance, longer and lighter colored hair around his cheek and throatlatch, loss of topline (bony withers and bony butt) … And I wasn’t sure about laminitis. I don’t think he has had an episode before, but I don’t know because I only started leasing him about a year ago. He does have some slightly v-shaped hoof rings, but his hoof doesn’t look like a typical laminitis hoof (That I can recognize) I checked for a digital pulse but felt nothing, and his hooves are normally slightly warm to the touch. Not hot, just warm. And they always are, I don’t think it is a new thing. His cornary band is showing a new stripe of hoof growth, possibly because of the weird weather around here. (Plus the air quality warning!!) He has quite a few stripes on his hooves, but not overly crazy. My biggest worry here is how he may be predisposed to laminitis (He is not overweight, just possibly has Cushing’s) and how his hoof rings are v-shaped.

Next- What I’m doing about the problem. I know a few people may be put off by this- But I don’t want to go on the prescription (Prascend- Pergolide) I know it is what is mainly recommended. I am not looking to start arguments, if you don’t agree please move on. But I will try to reason quickly why I am making the decision not too. 1.Cost, 2.Having to up the dose until death, 3.The Depression lag from the dopamine, 4.Possible sideaffects from the drug, 5. Personal health beliefs. So- What we ARE doing instead? I found an herbal mix with many effective herbs- Have been proven to work- In humans and horses. That is on it’s way in the mail. It is meant to be a alternative to Prascend. So, hopefully that will work well. I have heard some stories (Not counting on this) that it could reverse the condition.
Anyway-Sorry for the ramble. You are amazing if you’ve read this far, thank you! Looking for insight, education, thoughts, and tips for living with a horse with Cushing’s, how to prevent a laminitis attack etc. Thank you!!

First, you need a diagnosis, from a real veterinarian, definitely a guess is not a diagnosis.
Without blood work you can’t tell if he has Cushing’s and what dose of medication or herbs?? will be adequate.

If he looks poorly and is not quite acting right, a vet can help sort what may be going on.
Cushing’s is just one of several possibilities.

Very nice of you to try to help him and that you are asking for ideas to do so.
Best luck finding what is going on with him and a way to help him.

[clanter]

@Scribbler

First, where are the owners in all this?

that is my question also, they need to be consulted first

[JB]

@fairiepony

But I don’t want to go on the prescription (Prascend- Pergolide) I know it is what is mainly recommended. I am not looking to start arguments, if you don’t agree please move on. But I will try to reason quickly why I am making the decision not too. 1.Cost, 2.Having to up the dose until death, 3.The Depression lag from the dopamine, 4.Possible sideaffects from the drug, 5. Personal health beliefs. So- What we ARE doing instead? I found an herbal mix with many effective herbs- Have been proven to work- In humans and horses.

1. Cost - it’s part of taking care of animals
2. Dose - you have no idea how the dosage will play out without regular testing. There are a LOT of horses who don’t have to increase dose. There are lots who start out at half a typical dose, and end their lives on a full typical dose.
3. Depression - the pergolide veil is successfully navigated by the vast majority of horses whose owners take the time to do what it takes
4. Side effects - like living a longer healthier life?
5. Beliefs - the horse doesn’t know what you believe, and the science doesn’t care (and I don’t mean that in a snarky way)

There are zero herbs proven to do anything other than help manage symptoms of PPID. None.

You are seeing multiple major symptoms of this disease, and the owner needs to get him tested. It is their job to do that unless your lease agreement says it’s on you. If that’s what it says, then it’s on you. You don’t have the right to not treat a horse that isn’t yours

The symptoms you describe can easily mean he should have started Prascend a while ago. He sounds like a ticking time bomb going into Fall, with the seasonal rise. Rings on his feet, some warmth, I almost guarantee he’s already laminitic

So no, I don’t agree with your idea that you don’t want to use Prascend, and I won’t move on, because that is ignoring what’s in the best interest of the horse. It isn’t your decision to make, it’s the owners.

The owner needs to be involved as the first step. If they aren’t interested in his care, then it’s on you to make sure he gets tested, and started on the proper dose of Prascend asap, or I fear this Fall may end badly for him.

[cayuse]

Going to echo everyone else and gently say he is not your horse and you’re a minor. It is the owners responsibility to sort this out. They need to be in the loop with any diagnosis and treatment, even herbal remedies.

[JB]

@fairiepony

And also to be worried, super worried or just concerned

Super worried.

[trubandloki]

@fairiepony

There are some very smart people here. Believe them.

A forum tip for you - Making the title “delete” only makes more people read the thread.

[Scribbler]

Very rude to delete the topic as it wasres all our thoughtful advice that could be useful to other readers in future.

Fortunately it was quoted in a reply.

I expect the very young poster did not like the advice. I expect they wanted to be reassured and given some advice about turmeric, and not be told to worry or involve the adults.

I think it’s great that the young OP is alert and thinking enough to see the very early signs and be concerned. Lots of kids wouldn’t. I am impressed.

But this is the kind of thing the owner needs and deserves to know about. And the horse needs real medical care. The meds are effective and can extend the horses life a long time. Whereas laminitis and founder are a death sentence.

[KBC]

@trubandloki

@fairiepony

There are some very smart people here. Believe them.

A forum tip for you - Making the title “delete” only makes more people read the thread.

Yup, it’s the only reason I’m here

[trubandloki]

@KBC

@trubandloki

@fairiepony

There are some very smart people here. Believe them.

A forum tip for you - Making the title “delete” only makes more people read the thread.

Yup, it’s the only reason I’m here

Because we are smart?

Or the more obvious thread title?

[Laurierace]

I just clicked on it because of the delete title for sure. So sad to hear how everyone in this horse’s life are apparently failing him, he definitely doesn’t deserve that. Hopefully this will open the OPs eyes and realize everyone involved has to step up and do right by him. And no, I won’t argue with you about Prascend because there is nothing to debate. You either take proper care of the horse or you don’t.

[IPEsq]

Increased thirst/urination can also be a sign of kidney problems. In case it’s helpful for anyone searching the forum in the future…You don’t want to go throwing herbs or any chemicals (anything that actually has an effect on the body is a chemical, whether it’s “natural” or manufactured) at a horse showing these symptoms without some bloodwork and having a vet involved and an actual diagnosis.

[KBC]

@trubandloki

@KBC

@trubandloki

@fairiepony

There are some very smart people here. Believe them.

A forum tip for you - Making the title “delete” only makes more people read the thread.

Yup, it’s the only reason I’m here

Because we are smart?

Or the more obvious thread title?

Because there is something about the title “delete” that makes we want to check the popcorn and wine section of my kitchen, just in case.

[candyappy]

" Delete " got me too. I am glad that Bluey thought to quote it.

@fairiepony You need to let the owners know what is going on ( if they don’t already). It is up to them to decide how to treat and with what. You also need a vet to confirm what is actually wrong with him so you can treat accordingly.

[Spudsmyguy]

Like everyone else said, let the owner of the horse in the loop to decide the course of action they want to take. I can almost guarantee they’re not going to care about your beliefs if they care about this horse.

[CindyCRNA]

Here for the “delete”.