Sensitive to pressure at heel bulbs

[JB]

I think it’s time for you to learn how to trim It’s clear this farrier has no idea what he’s doing.

All those event lines are from repeated inappropriate pressure on the walls from the unbalanced trimming.

He’s clearly simply trimming from the bottom, and doesn’t understand that “shorten the toe” here means horizontally, NOT vertically. He’s done a terrible job all around for at least a full growth cycle, so 9+ months.

Do you have recent xrays? Apologies if that’s mentioned above. There are some good trimming groups on FB, and while you can post for free in this one, she does offer paid consults to help show you exactly what to do. I’ve watched several members really learn what’s what

Normally I point people to the ELPO tirmming mapping to learn to trim, and I will here too, but IMHO this needs more eyes-on because of the whole NPA thing
https://www.lamenessprevention.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=6600&pk_association_webpage=13307

ALL that course material is free. And you can map feet over and over and over before ever trimming anything

[Scribbler]

So this is right after a trim, and I see tons of old bar false sole as well as the heel issues either contracted or run forward. And the side views all show heels run forward. And as already noted, scary event lines. Very compromised feet all around, farrier making no attempt to fix the angles

[LamenessRus]

Thanks JB! I joined the facebook group (I’m in several other hoof groups, which are great at telling you how to evaluate what you see, but not so great about telling you how to fix it). I am familiar with the ELPO site, which is great. I think where I’m stuck is just how to jump in and do it myself, since I’m clearly struggling to find someone who I can pay to do it.

But briefly, what do you mean by “shorten the toe horizontally?”

@JB

He’s clearly simply trimming from the bottom, and doesn’t understand that “shorten the toe” here means horizontally, NOT vertically.

And yes, recent rads from June or July. Definitely still showing NPA, which is no surprise to me.

I think I need to find a weekend course and do that, and just learn how to do it myself. At this point, this 13 year old horse - who was supposed to start competing at CDIs two years ago, before all this started - is heading towards retirement unless we can fix this, so I guess I have nothing to lose.

[LamenessRus]

@fivestrideline

It shouldn’t take 2 years to fix such feet, if you’re working with a good farrier and don’t have anything else contributing. You’ve still got long toes. Those event lines are pervasive and recent - you don’t have much foot growing down before you hit a big one. They could be trim related, due to stress from bad angles, or they could be signs of chronic subacute laminitis, or who knows what else. I’m just pointing them out as a sign that something is DEFINITELY up. Normal feet, even ones with less than perfect trims, don’t look like that.

Thanks, I totally agree! I can see the pathologies, and the issues - I’m in a variety of hoof groups on facebook, so I feel like I can see the problems. Where I’m stuck is the how to fix these issues, either for me to help guide my farrier, or just learn to do it myself. I see a lot of “this is what’s wrong with this hoof” on facebook, but not a lot of “here’s how you fix it.” Truly lost here, other than slapping wedges back on (which makes her feel more comfortable, but created frog pain, so truly cannot win).

[LamenessRus]

I didn’t respond to everyone individually, but thank you all for the feedback. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?), everything y’all are saying is pretty familiar, so I guess it’s good confirmation of what’s wrong. Still stuck at how to fix it.

If anyone knows of a week-long hands on course for owners to learn to do their own trimming, I’m all ears. (I know there’s more to learn than one can in a week, but as a working adult, I’m pretty limited.)

For context, this horse was supposed to start competing at CDIs two years ago, before all this started to unravel. Money has been no object to get this horse sound over the last two years, but the feet remain an huge problem (as you can all see). Unless I can resolve this, she’s heading towards retirement at 13, so I guess I have nothing to lose in learning to trim myself.

Truly appreciate everyone’s time and feedback.

[fivestrideline]

Hey, welcome to the club! I’m also learning how to trim my own because I’m tired of playing farrier roulette with my horse’s feet. I do still have the barn farrier trim him, tbd on how I feel about that, but if it’s not a good fit it looks like I’ll be on my own.

I’m no pro, and I’m still learning, but what I did was buy a rasp and some mechanics gloves. I actually bought a “mini” rasp first, that can be handled with one hand because I wasn’t sure I’d be able to juggle the big rasp and his feet without a stand. Anyways, I studied all the literature and basically just started rasping the toes and taking down flares. I didn’t touch the bars or anything that I couldn’t do with a rasp. This combined with “real” trims from a farrier has worked so far. I’m getting more confident, and want to start mapping his feet once I get a stand (my back cannot handle the bent over juggling act, and I’m SLOW).

Don’t get too discouraged - get brave . An in person course would be fantastic!

[JB]

@LamenessRus

what do you mean by “shorten the toe horizontally?”

there are a few different ways. One is you physically hold the rasp vertical to the ground plane of the foot and rasp. There’s only so much room to go before you start invading live sole.

The other is to put a bevel on the foot, starting where the breakover SHOULD be (ELPO mapping shows you where that is), at a shallow incline. There’s no live/sensitive material in front of that breakover line on a stretched forward foot, in that angled plane.

www.barefoothorse.com has some good images of using that bevel. I can’t remember if the ELPO site does, but they do talk about it.

[IPEsq]

My farrier says to rasp at about 45 degrees to bevel the foot. I had to do some flare cleanup from time to time on one horse when he wasn’t shod all around. I also did a lot of rasping practice last summer when one of mine had horrible, crumbling, shelly feet and we were having to make glue patches. The glue wouldn’t last very long, so I would have to reapply and then rasp down the glue once set. That was an easy way to practice since I wasn’t rasping the horn. But as a newbie, with just a rasp and no nippers, it is harder than you might think to do too much. When I was taking down the flares, I was concerned about rasping too much sometimes which typically meant I didn’t do enough and the flare would still be there and then chip. And then I’d have to clean up the chip.

It does help if you have a farrier who is good and who will coach you. Even if yours will coach you, I don’t know how much that will help since they aren’t doing a great job as it is.

See if you can find a farrier supply store in your area and go buy some of the basic tools and ask them if they know of any courses or how to find them.

Also, you can watch videos on how to use the HoofJack which will show you how to stand, to protect your back, things like that.

[Scribbler]

I agree that most of us can do no damage with a rasp and we may need to rasp 3 days in a row in order to actually do any good!! Rasping is low risk. However that also means you can’t do everything with a rasp. You want a good trim to set it up, then start rasping after a week or two of growth to try to keep it close to the good trim. You can’t take out bar or contracted heel or overgrown sole with a rasp either

[LamenessRus]

Thank you! Though to be honest this club sucks

I did get a set of a rasp, a knife, and some nippers (really just bought the set for the rasp, but nippers to take down a stray piece now and then seemed useful). I’ve been doing this a bit, just hard to know how aggressive I can take the toe back.

That being said, is the secret to fixing NPA really just to keep the toe back? That’s all? Seems too simple, no?

[fivestrideline]

@LamenessRus

That being said, is the secret to fixing NPA really just to keep the toe back? That’s all? Seems too simple, no?

Yes and no. Those heels will contribute, but toes running forward will pull the heels with them. Flares, balance, all of it matters, but a long/run forward toe is a HUGE part of it. Basically, every little bit you can do to keep things tidy will help.

And yes this club sucks! But I think eventually (when I feel more confident and educated) it’ll be a relief to know I don’t have to make choices based around finding a farrier, and that my horses will be sounder for it.

[LamenessRus]

Ah ok, so by “shorten the toe horizontally” (or vertically) you mean how you hold the rasp? Seems straightforward enough.

Trying to (gently) shorten the toe with a rasp and provide a small bevel is something I’ve been trying to do since pulled her shoes. I will look at the website you shared for more instructions as to how to do that better.

Thanks!

[LamenessRus]

Thank you, I have a rasp, a knife, and two nippers (bought the set for the rasp, but came with the others).

I’ll look into finding a farrier supply store and see what resources they have (didn’t even occur to me that there would be a physical store around here, but it’s obvious in retrospect!).

[LamenessRus]

@Scribbler

I agree that most of us can do no damage with a rasp and we may need to rasp 3 days in a row in order to actually do any good!! Rasping is low risk. However that also means you can’t do everything with a rasp. You want a good trim to set it up, then start rasping after a week or two of growth to try to keep it close to the good trim. You can’t take out bar or contracted heel or overgrown sole with a rasp either

That is very comforting - I guess I’m super nervous about trimming my dogs nails too close to the quick, that perhaps I’ve projected that fear to my horse. I’ll try to be more aggressive - that, combined with some of the new links shared here, might help me get somewhere.

[LamenessRus]

Ok this picture, from the barefoothorse.com link you shared, is amazing:

I am CLEARLY not being aggressive enough!

[fivestrideline]

Fair warning on those - they’re such a great example of what it can look like BUT that’s a super short trim and sets the horse 100% on the sole if done incorrectly. I had a farrier that did beautiful trims like this but made my horse sore for a week after. Turns out my horse was depending on some wall height for protection from the ground and we needed to be less aggressive (or have him in boots 24/7). I’m in the damp SE and horses just don’t grow rock hard feet down here.

Anyways, yes you are probably not being as aggressive as you could be. But don’t swing too far in the other direction without some boots and pads on hand!

[JB]

@LamenessRus

I am CLEARLY not being aggressive enough!

you can’t always do this though. How thick is the sole? Is there any other part of the wall behind the toe that’s providing some protection? That’s why I much prefer the ELPO method because it talks strongly about what to leave, as much as what to take. And when you do the bevel method, you do that before you really get to lower wall height, so you leave some protection and don’t just dump the foot onto the sole

[LamenessRus]

Good points both! Appreciate the voices of moderation. Sounds like there’s a happy medium I’ll have to find.

Really wish I could just PAY A PROFESSIONAL to take care of all this for me, but here we are.

[IPEsq]

The closest farrier supply place to me is run mostly by women, and so I found them to be super helpful and supportive! I went in to get a bunch of Equipak supplies and a new Hoof Jack and such for my problem footed horse. At first they were ready to have me fire my farrier, but then after I told them who it was, they started to believe me that horse just had crappy feet plus we had the wettest winter/spring ever. He stood in wet snow or mud all day long. They said, well, then you really should just take a course! But that would also require me learning how to nail a shoe back on (and fix a bent shoe), and I think that’s going to be beyond my comfort level for quite some time! My farrier would fully support me taking a course rather than him coming out mid-cycle to fix a problem, as he keeps threatening to retire!

[Bonnie2]

Take the toe back a little bit at a time, a couple times a week. No sudden changes. I have a horse with chronic NPA that only improved barefoot. When shod, they only get trimmed once every 4 or 5 or 6 weeks. Your farrier can be aggressive and risk/cause soreness or they can be conservative and not get anywhere. If you rasp a little 14 times in 4 weeks you can make improvement without causing soreness in the feet or body. Worth a try!