Serious Falls at Millbrook

[alyssaequestrian]

@Jealoushe

Does anyone know how Sarah fell? It was noted it was not rotational.

She got a little close to the front of the table and he gave a big effort up front and behind and the momentum from behind caught him off balance and he twisted and landed on his shoulder/side and she was basically catapulted off of him

[Sticky_Situation]

@JER

But what matters is how they look to the horse.

True, but that’s exactly what I see as a potential downside to the existing collapsible table designs. Airy, gappy-looking fences are generally harder for a horse to read than more solid ones, although as you said, there are also other factors that play into a horse’s ability to read a fence.

[Sticky_Situation]

@Jealoushe

It seems as though being a professional is not now if you will have a serious injury, but when.

I would argue that this has always been the case. It’s not just a new phenomenon.

[JER]

@gardenie

https://youtu.be/VZE6KBIQoDo. Looking at the helmet cam, these tables have a seeable top, they are not completely flat.

And yet this says absolutely nothing about how it looks to the horse.

[NCRider]

@JER

And yet this says absolutely nothing about how it looks to the horse.

And even on the helmet cam I couldn’t tell how wide the fence where Caroline rotated until the horse in the video was taking off which is too late.

[JER]

@NCRider

And even on the helmet cam I couldn’t tell how wide the fence where Caroline rotated until the horse in the video was taking off which is too late.

I suspect the fence after it (behind the table) which is the same color aligns with fence 4 somehow and the horse can’t make out the definition of 4 until it’s quite close.

[Ajierene]

Anyone have any opinions on comparting jum p18 with 4, 6, and/or 14 - they all seem equally “flat tably” to me so why would 18 be different than the other two? Just watching the footage posted, they looked the same basic design.

[Cathbad]

Ajirene: As a spectator at Millbrook 2018, many of the horses seemed to be a bit tired at the end of the course, so for Fence 18, fatigue could have been a factor. Not all horses were tuckered, but that was an impression I came away with, and other people noted this, too. Some comments were also made about the twisting track, and maybe that type of track really drains some horses.

And the weather just harassed everyone, with more pile-driver rains in the middle of Sat. night. That may have not given the horses, esp. the ones in tents (mostly everyone) a real chance to get good rest.

Me, personally, I don’t love a table. Very vertical effort to very wide effort, all in one jump. Maybe not the safest question on a fixed obstacle.

[Willesdon]

Here is some easily accessible data and analysis about falls, fence type etc

FEI https://inside.fei.org/fei/disc/eventing/risk-management

BE https://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/page.aspx?section=202

I can not find much comparable information from USEA, perhaps someone knows where it is?

http://useventing.com/sites/default/files/cross_country_safety_stats.pdf

http://useventing.com/education/research

[Julie_Worley]

@alyssaequestrian

She got a little close to the front of the table and he gave a big effort up front and behind and the momentum from behind caught him off balance and he twisted and landed on his shoulder/side and she was basically catapulted off of him

It seems to me that Rubens has had quite a few falls. I think a couple with each rider. And, at least some, if not all, were due to “the momentum from behind.”

[kcmel]

I see both scores have been changed from RF to MR. So is RF the default until an incident is investigated?

[Sannois]

@gardenie

https://youtu.be/VZE6KBIQoDo. Looking at the helmet cam, these tables have a seeable top, they are not completely flat. I’ve been doing decorating quite a bit and the tables are carefully placed nowadays to give less of a surprise than in the recent past

Wow what a nice horse! Doug had a really nice ride!
Fences look not bad. Of course when you have a horse that willing and responsive.
the tables looked fine. At least the ones that I saw.

[JER]

@Divine Comedy

Cristano Z on the others hand has fallen at every Advanced he has tried. First at Rocking Horse, then at Carolina, both earlier this year, then he spent some time at the lower levels and this was his next Advanced attempt. I’m thinking this one needs another job, or at least to stick to Intermediate and below.

He needs another job.

Isn’t this the horse that Leslie Law rode for a while because CM was hurt from one of those other falls?

WTF would anyone want to keep playing Russian roulette on a horse?

WTF would anyone think it’s fair or humane to keep sending a horse out in a situation where there’s a reasonable expectation of a fall at a solid obstacle?

There’s no point in talking about eventing safety if people can’t stop themselves from going XC on a horse that’s given to going base over apex. That kind of idiocy - or maybe it’s denial - will never be safe in this sport.

[Jealoushe]

@Sticky Situation

I would argue that this has always been the case. It’s not just a new phenomenon.

Maybe, but serious serious like almost die serious? Yikes.

[Jealoushe]

@Divine Comedy

Cristano Z on the others hand has fallen at every Advanced he has tried. First at Rocking Horse, then at Carolina, both earlier this year, then he spent some time at the lower levels and this was his next Advanced attempt. I’m thinking this one needs another job, or at least to stick to Intermediate and below.

Ok, that is seriously concerning. And he only made it to fence 4…Even more concerning they keep trying…do some people have a death wish? Although CM is also the one I see on social media jumping massive fences at home without a helmet so perhaps she does.

As far as the scoring - that is seriously concerning also when both these falls were clearly horse falls.

At what point do we start looking at rider falls too? Whats the average per starts…and are some riders above the average. Where is equiratings on this?

[Divine_Comedy]

@JER

He needs another job.

Isn’t this the horse that Leslie Law rode for a while because CM was hurt from one of those other falls?

I’d definitely prefer to see him have another job.

And yes, but LL competed it at lower levels because it lost the qualifications at Advanced after the two horse falls. This fall at Millbrook I would think would re-trigger that again, even though it ‘requalified’ because it’s still two horse falls within 12 months.

Of course I’d rather see it go be a jumper.

[Ajierene]

@Jealoushe

Maybe, but serious serious like almost die serious? Yikes.

Well…there were the 2 horse deaths at the 1968 Olympics.

[Sticky_Situation]

@Jealoushe

Maybe, but serious serious like almost die serious? Yikes.

Based on what I’ve heard in the media, Sara didn’t “almost die” but she certainly has a serious injury.

I maintain that the risk of serious injury at the upper levels isn’t somehow “getting worse”; we just hear about all the accidents now with social media, and with many upper level riders going south for the winter they compete more times per year = more opportunities for injury.

Eventing has always been a dangerous sport, even in the Good Ole Days of the long format and thoroughbreds.

[packy_mcgaughan]

I am struck by the number of comments that attribute the primary cause of the fall to the fence construction and type. This type of fence has been in use for years and is one of the most ubiquitous in eventing. It is a standard question that gets asked and answered at every level. They are quite easily handled from a show jumping pace as they allow the rider a good margin of error given the generally sloping shape and generous groundlines, However, when a rider is pressing for time, the margin of error decreases and accuracy becomes very important. Neither of these fences was unfair or poorly placed. While I have seen some fences over the years that were designed poorly and encouraged the horse and rider to make mistakes, 99% of falls are related to some form of rider error. I would wager that on investigation, both of these falls resulted in some lack of communication between the horse and the rider. We can and should make the sport safer but to say that the fence was to blame when the truth is more related to training the horse and rider would be letting the riders off the hook too soon. There will always be some risk related to jumping immovable objects at speed. The sport tests that skill. It is up to each rider to prepare their horses for safe trips around the course and to make good decisions while on course. I’m guessing if you asked these very capable young women what went wrong they would both start with “I missed the distance.”

[Jealoushe]

@Ajierene

Well…there were the 2 horse deaths at the 1968 Olympics.

That is not at all what I am talking about. There were 8 horse deaths this year alone…not related to my point

Missing a distance shouldn’t almost kill you or your horse.

I consider breaking your spine in multiple places a very very serious injury.

Were they really that common among top riders before the internet?