Serious Falls at Millbrook

[packy_mcgaughan]

@subk

My impression is that you seem to spend a lot of time on SM cutting riders a break, yet here we are now saying 99% rider fault. When will you be critical of riders instead of being the reliable voice that cuts them slack?

I think there are going to be a lot of riders laughing their asses off at that statement.

[subk]

@packy mcgaughan

I think there are going to be a lot of riders laughing their asses off at that statement.

I guess that depends on your definition of a lot and how many riders like you think it is perfectly fine to put your feet on the dashboard, lean back on the reins and use one arm to yank back on the reins for the purpose of slowing a horse while that horse has its mouth tied down over extreme bitting. Never mind the blood. If you hear laughing you might want to reconsider who the target is.

[vagabondrider]

@Jealoushe

Do you know of any examples of BRNs from say 80-2000s that had very serious falls you could share here (obviously not ones that resulted in death)?

There were quite a few top rider deaths & serious injuries in the late 90’s. One year in particular- 97? 99? I don’t remember exactly the year but the spate of serious falls is discussed at length in both Pippa Funnell & Mark Todd’s autobiographies. Polly Phillips who rode for the British team was one example.

As for tables, it was the mid or late 90’s when research was reported in the USCTA News (maybe done by the USCTA? Not quite sure) that tables caused more than their share of falls. This was improved by building tables with ascending faces & a slightly higher profile at the back than at the front so that horses could judge the width. This research changed the build of tables for a while all the way down to the lower levels. Now it seems like the tables are often built at the same height front & back, but still with an ascending face.

Another jump that that caused some serious problems in the mid to late 90’s was the upright bounce into water. There was a Californian rider who died at a bounce into water in that era (although there were others with bigger names, but she sticks out in my mind). I believe it was at Trojan Horse in AZ but I may be wrong about that part.

[RAyers]

@vagabondrider

…

Another jump that that caused some serious problems in the mid to late 90’s was the upright bounce into water. There was a Californian rider who died at a bounce into water in that era (although there were others with bigger names, but she sticks out in my mind). I believe it was at Trojan Horse in AZ but I may be wrong about that part.

The rider death at Trojan was a friend of mine. He tried to jump a log into the water from a standstill. His death resulted in the rules about refusals and jumping from a stand still.

[Janet]

Slightly before 1980, but Caroline Treviranus had a severe head injury at Lexington.

[JER]

@RAyers

The rider death at Trojan was a friend of mine. He tried to jump a log into the water from a standstill. His death resulted in the rules about refusals and jumping from a stand still.

vagabond rider is referring to another death at Trojan, maybe circa 1997 or 1998. The incident was at a bounce at Advanced or Intermediate, IIRC. I’m thinking her name was Linda?

[ladyj79]

@subk

I guess that depends on your definition of a lot and how many riders like you think it is perfectly fine to put your feet on the dashboard, lean back on the reins and use one arm to yank back on the reins for the purpose of slowing a horse while that horse has its mouth tied down over extreme bitting. Never mind the blood. If you hear laughing you might want to reconsider who the target is.

You know Packy is a troll, don’t feed him

[Incantation]

Christopher Reeve had his fall in 1995 I think.

[BWP]

@vagabondrider

There were quite a few top rider deaths & serious injuries in the late 90’s. One year in particular- 97? 99? I don’t remember exactly the year but the spate of serious falls is discussed at length in both Pippa Funnell & Mark Todd’s autobiographies. Polly Phillips who rode for the British team was one example.

'99. 5 rider fatalities that year iirc.

[CSU92]

@Jealoushe

Even more concerning they keep trying…do some people have a death wish? Although CM is also the one I see on social media jumping massive fences at home without a helmet so perhaps she does.

This is a trait that eventers share to one degree or another. If we could recognize and accept it we might make faster progress towards eliminating horse falls. Rider bravery is still an element that course designers and competitors want to see examined.

If we could make a completely “safe” table, it would ask less questions of the horse and rider on course. Some would resist this to prevent “cheapening” the sport. If we could agree that a horse fall is an unacceptable price to be paid for a mistake at a table, we could set about designing a table that is safe while still providing an objective opportunity to penalize a major mistake.

Safe and influential at the same time is the big challenge as I see things.

[Jealoushe]

@Incantation

Christopher Reeve had his fall in 1995 I think.

He was not a BNR.

Thank you all for examples. It still to me seems less often and common than now, where pretty much after every big event a very BNR is sidelined with a serious injury. Even in the last few years it seems more often, but I dont have the numbers. Maybe I will compile a list sometime.

[IFG]

I started eventing in the 1980’s. I can remember only one death during that decade. It was a young woman riding at Advanced in Florida I think. Unfortunately, I cannot remember her name.

[Ajierene]

@CSU92

This is a trait that eventers share to one degree or another. If we could recognize and accept it we might make faster progress towards eliminating horse falls. Rider bravery is still an element that course designers and competitors want to see examined.

If we could make a completely “safe” table, it would ask less questions of the horse and rider on course. Some would resist this to prevent “cheapening” the sport. If we could agree that a horse fall is an unacceptable price to be paid for a mistake at a table, we could set about designing a table that is safe while still providing an objective opportunity to penalize a major mistake.

Safe and influential at the same time is the big challenge as I see things.

I think the first thing we need to acknowledge is that at a certain point the concept of “kicking on” is nothing but an ego boost. Leaving aside altered state due to head injury - continuing when you shouldn’t is ego driven.

Gillian riding with broken bones, in my opinion, does NOT maker her “tough as nails” it makes her so ego driven she’s failing to see where she can hurt her horse by not being even 80% sound. (Note: she may be “tough as nails” for other reasons).

The guy people that lauded for checking himself out of the hospital to show jump so his team could Medal in the Olympics did not do it for altruistic reasons, he did it because he wanted a medal.

There is no life at stake if someone retires or falls on course. There is no life or limb issue if a team doesn’t medal. Wanting to medal/place is purely an ego driven thought. Being upset about a teammate because they elected to go to the hospital instead of “kicking on” is purely an ego driven emotion. It is not someone concerned about their friend, it is someone concerned about themselves. Refusing the hospital to continue to ride is not someone concerned about their horse, it is someone concerned about themselves.

An example of an altered state that I can think of immediately is Anne Phillps’ fall at Badmington in 1976. She had instructed her support team that should she fall, she did not want to continue. She fell, hit her head, told them she was fine and kept going. She later got upset at the team for allowing her to continue - why did she say she was fine? Most likely a concussion causing an altered mental state. So, unless that happened to Gillian, my opinion is that her ego ruled that day.

[Jealoushe]

@Ajierene

Gillian riding with broken bones, in my opinion, does NOT maker her “tough as nails” it makes her so ego driven she’s failing to see where she can hurt her horse by not being even 80% sound. (Note: she may be “tough as nails” for other reasons).

I don’t think she was aware of her injuries, to be fair her horse slipped on the ground originally so it wasn’t a fence related fall. I do agree with your point though, I don’t think it does anyone justice to ride while injured or not healed, for example CM had a bad foot injury not long ago…you have to wonder if has an effect afterwards when they don’t allow time to heal.

[Blugal]

Adding one more Canadian rider from my province that I know about, this would be approx. 1983: Jennifer McKenzie began her riding career as an avid pony clubber. In 1982 she represented B.C at the NAYR Championships. At age 17, an accident during the cross-country phase of an event drastically changed her life. In the years that have followed, Jennifer has represented Canada many times in Para Dressage including the 2008 Paralympic Games. In 2014, she achieved the B.C Para Dressage Award at the Pacific Regional Para Dressage Championships at Thunderbird Show Park.

[Fergs]

@Jealoushe

Do you know of any examples of BRNs from say 80-2000s that had very serious falls you could share here (obviously not ones that resulted in death)?

Steve Bradley and High Flying Brent had a terrible fall at Rolex in the mid-90s. It was a rotational fall at a drop fence. Awful to watch but the horse was (basically) okay. Steve was airlifted out with back injuries and rode for a long time after in a corset.

[Ajierene]

I also found this when I was doing research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hyung-chil

[Jealoushe]

@Ajierene

I also found this when I was doing research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hyung-chil

Wow, I have to check that this is on my master list in the WTF thread.

[IFG]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1988-03-06/sports/0020270110_1_cronin-horse-rider-obstacle

@IFG

I started eventing in the 1980’s. I can remember only one death during that decade. It was a young woman riding at Advanced in Florida I think. Unfortunately, I cannot remember her name.

My mistake, seriously injured. Daphne Cronin :

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1988-03-06/sports/0020270110_1_cronin-horse-rider-obstacle

[Leprechaun]

I couldn’t find an old article to link but as I recall Karen Stives had a terrible rotational fall in the mid 80’s at one of the selection trials. She didn’t sustain long term damage but I remember hearing that she had stopped breathing & needed resuscitation. Flying Colors was the horse, I think. It was the horses second fall & he went to the show world.

Does anyone remember this? It’s a bit foggy & could be part reality, part gossip.