Shivers and Stringhalt-Help is on the way!

[Sammy_the_Saddlebred]

We have a horse that my vet referred to Dr Declue to be part of this study. We were very excited about it, I talked to Dr Declue and she was so encouraging and really wanted to have him in the study. She said she wanted to come out and meet him first to see what she would be dealing with and how sever his Shivers would be. She said she would be in contact to set up a time to come out and meet him. I waited a couple of weeks (she had said she was gathering more info/finalizing details and would be in contact within a couple of days). After not hearing back from her, I talked to my vet to see if she had heard anything. She told me she thought the study was going ahead and one of her other clients had had a visit from her and was all set. So I contacted Dr Declue again, thinking maybe she had just gotten sidetracked.

She indicated she was still very interested in having our horse participate, apologized for the delay and set up to come out right away. I called my husband to leave work early so he could be there too (it’s his horse). He rushed home to be here and then I got a text that she was running behind with another client and would have to set up our appointment a different day. She said she would contact us in a few days.

Again, after over a week had passed, I left her a message just saying we were still very interested in the study and wanted to make sure she had us on our radar for re-scheduling the meeting. She texted back and said basically she is rarely in our area, she hasn’t forgotten and she will contact us when she was able to come out. I got the distinct vibe that my contacting her to check in was annoying her, so I texted her back to apologize and tell her we would wait on her to contact us. That was in I believe march or April. Never heard anything after that.

I talked to our vet this summer, thinking the study had been put off (there had already been one delay) and was surprised to learn that her other client had been delivered to the farm they were doing the study at. We are pretty disappointed that after talking to her and having her so excited about our horses case, she basically blew us off. I guess she was able to fill her study and didn’t need our horse? But the fact remains that he has an odd case of what seems to be fairly advanced Shivers and our vet was very anxious for him to be included. Dr Declue herself gave no indication in our initial conversation of anything other than excitement to meet him and interest in his case. So I am not sure what changed, but we are pretty sad that he didn’t get a chance to get this therapy, whatever it might be.

So that’s my very brief experience with the Shivers treatment. I have heard amazing things about the results, but as others here have said, I have no idea what all is involved in the treatment.

[Annabelle123]

This is at best pseudo-science, and at worst a flat out scam…

If any of the findings from this so-called ‘study’ are even remotely legitimate, I would very much like to see them published in a respected academic, peer-reviewed veterinary journal. Until then, it has about as much credibility as a dietary supplement someone is hawking on Facebook that will help you lose 25lbs overnight.

[kande04]

@Lieslot

I’m curious, but skeptical.
My horse was part of Dr Valberg’s research. The outcome of her research I find was pretty astounding and comprehensive.

But that outcome is a secret?

That alone makes me think that any possible treatment is on the snake oil vs science end of the spectrum.

IOW, who asks for donations to support their research but is then secretive about what that research is?

[Chall]

A long time ago, someone posted their success story treating string halt, with supplements and a specific rehab exercise program.
Anyone remember that?

[Lieslot]

Kande04, what do you mean by secret? She had no secrets about the outcome, the video presentation very clearly shows what they researched and what the conclusion was and where the origin of shivers in the body lays, it’s just that they found no treatment. There’s some similarity to Parkinson’s, but the drugs used to treat Parkinson’s had zero effect.
They know where & what to treat, they just don’t know what with. That’s what I understood from that presentation.
I know the video is long, but it’s really in depth and got me a total different uderstanding of the condition.

[Highflyer]

@kande04

But that outcome is a secret?

That alone makes me think that any possible treatment is on the snake oil vs science end of the spectrum.

IOW, who asks for donations to support their research but is then secretive about what that research is?

Lieselot’s horse was in a different study, not the top secret magical one the OP references.

[Foxtrot_s]

As a rule, I don’t jump on every bandwaggon - I wait until there is a tried and true track record and recommendation from my trusted vets. Too much woo woo out there.

[merrygoround]

A member here of th skeptic club… Where is the published paper where is the support form peers.

Sounds like fantasy land.

I have dealt with string halt horses, and never saw one in such dire straits. I have also observed that they improved with conditioning, whether this established a better neurological path or was pure luck. For now I’l stick with Dr. Valberg.

[Xanthoria]

Just read this reply to a thread on FB for anyone who remembers the “shivers cure”

“ Check out DeClue Equine and Audrey’s podcast The Horse First. It’s long to explain here, but Audrey has discovered that shivers does not come from the brain but instead from femoral nerve entrapment caused by an injury to the psoas muscle. Scar tissue develops and essentially causes compartment syndrome which causes ascending nerve damage which can ultimately lead to cerebellar dysfunction (not the other way around as many vets believe). She’s successfully cured over 2000 horses of both shivers and stringhalts. She uses a very short acting steroid and a derivative of the pitcher plant to break down adhesions and scar tissue and release the nerve. She’s treated two horses for us; one who was so crippled we thought we were going to have to euthanize and this one who had zero push, zero ability to swap leads, and absolutely no idea where his hind end was in space. He had two rounds of treatment and now swaps leads, had the most insane hind end, and is completely aware of where his legs are and what they’re doing. The one who was crippled does still shiver mildly but is completely sound and this one doesn’t shiver anymore at all. The first one is 16 and has had shivers for his entire working life, so she warned us that he could likely be managed but not cured. She’ll see both of them once a year for the rest of their careers.”

[Argo]

I want to understand how the psoas could become injured, since it’s such soft tissue buried so deep within the body. Does everyone with a shivers/stringhalt horse have record of an injury? I believe the vet said in a farrier-forum podcast that riding the horse too much in a compressed frame caused the condition. I’d like to understand how.

[Scribbler]

@Xanthoria

Just read this reply to a thread on FB for anyone who remembers the “shivers cure”

“ Check out DeClue Equine and Audrey’s podcast The Horse First. It’s long to explain here, but Audrey has discovered that shivers does not come from the brain but instead from femoral nerve entrapment caused by an injury to the psoas muscle. Scar tissue develops and essentially causes compartment syndrome which causes ascending nerve damage which can ultimately lead to cerebellar dysfunction (not the other way around as many vets believe). She’s successfully cured over 2000 horses of both shivers and stringhalts. She uses a very short acting steroid and a derivative of the pitcher plant to break down adhesions and scar tissue and release the nerve. She’s treated two horses for us; one who was so crippled we thought we were going to have to euthanize and this one who had zero push, zero ability to swap leads, and absolutely no idea where his hind end was in space. He had two rounds of treatment and now swaps leads, had the most insane hind end, and is completely aware of where his legs are and what they’re doing. The one who was crippled does still shiver mildly but is completely sound and this one doesn’t shiver anymore at all. The first one is 16 and has had shivers for his entire working life, so she warned us that he could likely be managed but not cured. She’ll see both of them once a year for the rest of their careers.”

I’m going to suggest that since it was 4 years since the original excitement and nothing has gone really public/mainstream on all this, that the secret cure as finally described is of the pseudo science or snake oil variety. Since unbroke horses can present with these neurological issues and they can show up young, its not likely to be due to chronic stress injuries from riding.

[Argo]

This is the vet that is doing extremely specific and deep injections while using ultrasound at the same time, right? There was a podcast this year where she said it’s so physically demanding in terms of hand-eye coordination that she has only trained one or two other vets in the technique. Could that be why it’s not mainstream yet?

[knic]

That sounds like an excuse. There are a number of vets who do incredibly delicate work. Maybe only one or two were interested in subjecting horses to an unproven “treatment”.

[Scribbler]

@Argo

This is the vet that is doing extremely specific and deep injections while using ultrasound at the same time, right? There was a podcast this year where she said it’s so physically demanding in terms of hand-eye coordination that she has only trained one or two other vets in the technique. Could that be why it’s not mainstream yet?

This kind of statement is a red flag tipoff that no one else will be able to replicate this procedure. It’s a staple of pseudo science practitioners. Often they also claim to be able to diagnose things noone else can find. Until its more proven I am sceptical.

[Argo]

There was a thread in Dressage earlier this year where I first heard about this vet and there’s a link to the recent podcast with her, to add some context to my questions.

Prospect with mild shivers, yay or nay?

[AllSport]

“from femoral nerve entrapment caused by an injury to the psoas muscle. Scar tissue develops and essentially causes compartment syndrome which causes ascending nerve damage”
I’d love to have some hope for horses with Shivers, though with out a paper in a scientific journal with data, etc. I’ll keep a wait and see approach. This is an interesting idea though. Maybe I’m remembering wrong, but aren’t most cases in geldings? A horse I know started having subtle signs shortly after being gelded and years later is significantly worse. One person said they thought he had a “gelding scar”. So that would all kind of line up. Could a hard fall or crazy struggle cause such an injury while being sedated for their castration? Or some other procedure?

Though, didn’t some of the past research show neuronal lesions in the cerebellum of Shivers horses? I’m skeptical but interested none the less.

[Argo]

The vet featured in this thread said the ‘cerebellum study’ done by the U of Minnesota is flawed because it only sampled 25 horses. She says if these horses have brain damage then the symptoms should be full-body, like Parkinson’s in humans.

[AllSport]

While haven’t viewed the brain slices myself obviously, if a localized region of the cerebellum has lesions or some type of injury, it wouldn’t necessarily affect the whole body. I work in a neurophysiology lab. You can definitely have progressive cell death that would relate to the progressive motor deficits you see in horses with shivers. With out going back and reviewing the paper, an n of 25 is fairly decent, but I’d have to look at the details and the stats and I need to get on the road. Should be reading a paper on a potential Fragile X treatment but I’m looking at this instead–oops.

[Argo]

This vet is saying stringhalt and shivers are the same condition and that it’s more like sciatica in humans. She injects the nerve using guided ultrasound and has apparently cured many cases.

I had a wonderful horse until 2015 with shivers that degenerated, and recently a big-city lameness vet was in my yard saying 30% of her warmblood patients had the condition, which I found quite alarming. I would love to read any insight you have the time to share. Thanks!

[sheltona01]

This vet is not well received in the veterinary community and I know therapic professionals who will not work with a horse if she is involved.