Shoes on Young Horses?

[JB]

@alibi_18

So vets know squat.

Trainers know squat.

Farriers knows better.

And the OP should take advice from… People off the internet?

Right…

Tell me where I said any of those.

That actually makes plenty of sense.

Why giving supplements to a horse that gets the required amount of everything it needs for its activity level?

I guarantee no horse is getting the required amount of EVERYthing if he’s only eating forage. Why do you think that a just turned 3yo who will be in light work has any different requirements than the almost 3yo in no work? The requirements differences are minimal.

Saying you don’t need to supplement beyond forage just because a horse isn’t in work, is no more accurate than saying you need to put shoes on a horse simply because he’s going into work. It doesn’t work that way. Y

I don’t feed my horses in full training the same as the olders, youngsters or those in light training.

I’d hope not, but those examples are not the OP’s horse. A late 2yo in no work is hardly any different from an early 3yo in light work.

Actually, the best is to have a vet do some testing.
Oh, right, they’re not competent enough…

You and PB just can’t read for comprehension can you :rolleyes:

Testing? For what? You’re not doing to see a copper deficiency. Or magnesium deficiency. You’re not going to see an iron overload especially relative to copper no matter what testing you do. And you’re not going to see an iron overload in many cases unless you run a ferritin test and how many vets know that? Or know that only Kansas State does that test?

(Really, if your vet is incompetent regarding hoof issues and nutrition, find another one.)

No thanks, I have farriers and trimmers for hoof care because that’s their job. I have people way more educated in nutrition than I am (and as much as I love my vet, she’s not included in that group). What I don’t have, that my vet is for, is the knowledge and ability to deal with medical issues for which she spent a LOT of time in school learning, and a lot of CE time keeping up with new developments. Vets are not farriers or nutritionists. Some might ALSO be those things, but most are not.

That’s why Farrier Formula exist!
For those horses who need more in the hoof department that regular food don’t seem to provide.

Why would you go from a forage-only diet, with " minimal grain, just a mix of high fat / high fibre" to that + a hoof supplement, when you can better feed the entire body (which includes the feet) with something like a ration balancer?

FF:
$1.53 a day
1.5gm lysine,
5.3gm methonine (useless unless there’s enough lysine in the overall diet)
250mg Zn
92mg Cu
20mg biotin

Triple Crown 30:
$.60 a day (1lb serving, estimating high end of $30/bag)
9gm lysine
2.8gm methionine (less likely to be deficient in a diet than lysine is)
454gm Zn
136gm Cu
1.4mg biotin

Which would you rather feed? Biotin is really cheap to add on its own, so you could add straight biotin to a good ration balancer, get MORE nutrition, and spend less.

The choice is yours.

]A ratio balancer won’t do squat if the horse’s nutrition is already balanced.

I guarantee forage-only diets are not balanced. Have you actually looked at enough forage analyses to see what’s typical? Have you seen the various hays posted here? Many are actually pretty good in terms of protein and calcium and phosphorous, but absolutely suck in the fe/cu/zn department. And some grass hays have hardly any calcium in them as well. And dried forage has all but nonexistent Vitamin E, and the less green it is, the less Vit A there is.

If the horse’s nutrition is already balanced, then what good will any supplement do?

Well, the vet, as incompetent as you might think s/he is, said that this horse has thin sole and should get shoes when started into work.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Do YOU know how thin the soles are? And did I not ask that question?

The horse also has a deform hoof and a crack starting.

But yeah, dismiss that.

Let’s wait for the horse to show discomfort and pain before putting shoes on.

I didn’t dismiss a thing - you really need to stop putting words into my mouth. I asked questions.

Oh… Now it’s time to ask the vet.

Well duh, the vet is the one who took the rads, and I just hope they marked things so they can measure distances. Do you know how many vets don’t do that, not even when they are xraying feet for the sole purpose of trying to identify a lameness issue in the foot? Too many. So yes, ask THE VET what the sole thickness measured.

Why can’t the OP just rely on her farrier now?

Wait, I thought the vet knew what they are talking about stating the horse needs shoes? Which is it?

[Palm_Beach]

@JB

You and PB just can’t read for comprehension can you :rolleyes:

You’ve stated over and over that you think most vets don’t know much about nutrition because they only take 1-2 classes in nutrition while in vet school. But you, yourself, never went to vet school much less took any graduate level classes in nutrition. Nor do you have an undergrad degree in anything even remotely related to nutrition. Yet somehow you feel immensely superior to vets, enough that you very freely judge them ALL based on your personal experience with the handful of vets in your corner of the world. You are self-educated via the internet with no credentials. THAT is eye-rolling worth, and arrogant to boot.

[S1969]

Well, the bottom line is that we don’t know enough about the horse to really answer the questions - how thin are the soles, what do you mean by “defect”, what do the feet look like, etc. Nor do we know why the farrier wanted to keep the horse barefoot while growing, or whether this farrier is good, bad, or mediocre.

I’d probably get another opinion on the feet, because of the “defect” and now a crack - combined with the rads showing thin soles. What does the OP’s vet think - shoes or no shoes? (Is that the same vet that did the PPE?)

Properly applied shoes are never going to hurt. If the horse doesn’t need them, they are simply extra protection - a bonus. A horse like that can transition back to barefoot easily if the owner decides that barefoot works better. Usually, the reason most people don’t want to put shoes on their horses is the extra expense. Not because barefoot is necessarily “better.”

But if the horse NEEDS shoes, there is usually little that can be done instead - assuming the horse is receiving good nutrition, and especially - good farrier care. Most horses don’t experience a huge change in hardness or sole depth by adding a supplement. Nothing applied topically protects the feet as well. And if there is a need for a special shoeing to correct/protect/alter a deformity or conformational challenge - nothing else really does that. Boots are an option for some horses, of course, and always good to have on hand. But are definitely limited and have their own drawbacks.

Photos of the feet would help.

[kwpn_01]

Hey guys! Thank you so much for all of the replies. I spoke with my trainer about my concerns, and I’m going to do my best to stick around for the next farrier visit to make sure all of my concerns are addressed properly. We are likely going to stick her on a Biotin supplement and/or supplement strictly for her feet. We are also considering shoeing IF her feet are in better condition upon starting work. I will be showing my farrier her feet x-rays to ensure he understands the condition of her feet from the vet’s perspective.

Unfortunately the vet that did her feet x-rays is not my current board vet (purchased her 7 hours south, so had to find one in the area), so she has yet to see them.

I will try and get a photo on here of her “deformity”, it basically just looks like a “wave” in her hoof, might have been injured as a foal.

[Postandrails]

Photos would be good. Quite often a wave in the hoof wall can also be due to pressure over a period of time caused by too much hoof in that one area. If that is the cause it will stay that way until corrected.