Should the Desert Circuit be cancelled? Or are you going?

[trubandloki]

@lenapesadie

PS - my grandmother’s most recent visit to ER for heart failure took a long time above normal and my mother reported patients on stretchers in the hallway. We didn’t see where that particular hospital had reported reaching ICU capacity but of course we might have missed it OR perhaps it was just a really busy day at that ER

This made me giggle because I do not think I have ever been to an ER (for myself or support for a relative) and there not be people on stretchers in the hallway. People on stretchers in the hallway is a normal every day pre-covid thing. (I have not been to an ER since Covid started.)

Before anyone pounces on me for not believing hospitals are over crowded - That is NOT what I am saying at all. I am addressing one specific point about patients in the hallways in an ER. I am a person who did not ride at all this spring because I felt that was my best way to not add to any medical burdens. I get it. So don’t twist what I am saying into something else.

[endlessclimb]

I personally was a stretcher in a hallway once. Probably in 2005 or 2006.

[trubandloki]

@endlessclimb

I personally was a stretcher in a hallway once. Probably in 2005 or 2006.

Me too. Mine was 2011. Post car accident. Some how Mr. Trub was given a cubby/room and I ended up in the hall.

[lenapesadie]

Thanks for sharing your experiences; it interesting to hear how things vary. It’s unusual at this hospital for there to be stretchers / beds in the hallway. It’s a smaller hospital and my poor Mom has had to go rather often as she has cared for both of her parents as they aged.

[vxf111]

I agree.

I’m just responding to the straw man argument that gets trotted out anytime you suggest doing XYZ thing is really selfish (namely the “what do you want, to shut down EVERYTHING?”).

As a thought experiment, I’d be really curious if oreo mom thinks it’s ok to pee in the public pool. Even knowing that the lifeguard who makes minimum wage doesn’t have any choice about whether s/he gets in the pool or not. Is it ok for you to urinate in the public pool and to take the position “if other people don’t like swimming in my pee, they can choose not to swim.” Is that how you truly view life? And not an answer that changes the subject either-- yes or no, is it ok for you to pee in a public pool because you preference your own comfort over other people.

[endlessclimb]

This would be an adequate comparison if someone was talking about masking in a grocery store or not.

We are talking about just a handful of industries being slaughtered here. If you don’t want to go to a restaurant (swim in the pee pee pool), then don’t. Seeing as how restaurants have only been tied to 4% of spreading events, it seems pretty wanton to use them as the scape goat. IL has had the longest lockdown on restaurants, and the restaurants are either begging for mercy or rebelling. Even the Mayor of Chicago is begging for relief.

Everything has to be a calculation of risk, not just “is this necessary”. Nothing but eating and sleeping is necessary, so we don’t want to go down that route too far, right?

[crackerjack]

@oreo_mom

Thank you I am enjoying life to the fullest! I hope everyone is enjoying themselves as much as I am.

Well it’s great that you are so comfortable doing this as you know fer sure the virus won’t affect you. But I mean the most important person is you right?! The majority, not all, of severe cases affect those who are already vulnerable- but really who cares about them right? What’s most important is that you are living your best life. Even if you have the virus but are asymptomatic- who cares! You’re not suffering any- and even if you unknowingly pass it on to someone who is vulnerable well they were going to die sooner or later anyway. They really don’t matter in the long run as their deaths don’t affect you. They aren’t really contributing in any meaningful way to society anyway… But at least you got to go to a horse show or church or the gym- wouldn’t want to miss out on that! #YOLO.
And seriously, the drs and nurses who are whining about being overworked- well they are just lying libtards and even if they aren’t maybe they should have picked a different occupation.

It’s all about you isn’t it.
Jesus christ on a cracker.

[vxf111]

That’s changing the subject.

Yes or no, do you think it’s ok for someone to pee in the pool because that person preferences his or her own comfort over others. Simple question. Put another way, is it ALWAYS ok to put your own comfort over others?

[endlessclimb]

lol, that is the strangest analogy for this situation ever. My peeing in the pool doesn’t impact any one who isn’t even going to the pool.

This is stupid, find another analogy.

The answer to your question is not yes or no. It’s “sometimes”. Because in the case of a toxic relationship, you’re darn right I’m going to put my “comfort” over that of someone else. Every case is different.

[Casey09]

I don’t think anyone would say that their comfort is more important than someone else’s safety. I think it is more about differing opinions on the most sustainable strategy as we move forward. This virus mutates to be more and more contagious. Is it practical to starve it out? I don’t know the answer to that but I would think part of the answer would be certainly not without sealing off the borders to international travel. I hope that the vaccine can really make a difference, but a huge part of that is going to be convincing people to get it as well as a race against time to get the shots manufacturer and distributed in time.

[vxf111]

I dunno… I think someone just admitted as much upthread.

@Casey09

I don’t think anyone would say that their comfort is more important than someone else’s safety.

[vxf111]

@endlessclimb

lol, that is the strangest analogy for this situation ever. My peeing in the pool doesn’t impact any one who isn’t even going to the pool.

This is stupid, find another analogy.

The answer to your question is not yes or no. It’s “sometimes”. Because in the case of a toxic relationship, you’re darn right I’m going to put my “comfort” over that of someone else. Every case is different.

It’s not a stupid analogy. It’s exactly what oreo mom was suggesting upthread. The pool is society. She’s more than happy going out and exposing other people (and herself) because it’s more comfortable for her. Her admonition “if you don’t like the risk, stay home” ignores the fact that LOTS of people have to go out, to some degree or another, to work or for other reasons. So we’re all the lifeguards to some degree-- sometimes we have to go in the pool. And some of us would like to swim more (have more parts of the economy open) but we can’t because people like oreo mom keep pissing goddamn everywhere.

[endlessclimb]

Nope, it’s still a pretty dumb analogy.

And again, it’s not black and white like that, at all. I would hope that by now, almost a year into this, that we would be able to see that. No one wants grandma to die. But scapegoating entire important sectors of our society and economy is not the answer, either - the financial implications of doing that are lifelong for the individuals impacted. The risk has to be calculated, mitigated where possible, but will never be eliminated. Unless you’d prefer welding people inside their apartment buildings and homes.

Remember. We are the elite, going to ride our horses yelling “shut it down!” to industries whose employees often live hand to mouth. We don’t know what someone who is living in the slums trying to run a bar to pay their rent and utilities is going through, or a groom who has eaten ramen for the last 2 months. The economy must survive. If this includes the proletariat prancing around on their ponies, if they’re outside the risk is minimal.

Any mention of government intervention is coulda woulda shoulda.

[vxf111]

I accidentally deleted this post of mine while trying to edit a typo. I didn’t mean to. Now I’m not sure how to bring it back. Sorry, I’m still getting used to the new board.

[endlessclimb]

Look, I’m as antisocial as they come. My biggest inconvenience of this whole thing is that the grocery stores aren’t open 24/7 like they used to be - I used to go at 5am, but now they don’t open until 6am. I don’t eat out. I don’t go to bars. Literally the only place I go is to the barn and the grocery (at 6am).

But I also worked manual labor, living hand to mouth, for many years of my life. You might not understand what these people are feeling right now, they’re drowning. Keeping everything closed up without data to do so (restaurants for example, 4%) is selfish of the governments that be. Telling Suzie with the Pottery Shop that her life’s dream is “not essential” so she must remain closed (while Walmart, even the ones without grocery, is open) is so uncalled for and not necessary.

Giving people rules to follow to allow them to mitigate risk while not removing their income, particularly when they’re not going to get help from anywhere else, is the answer. Risk analysis is the key here, and is lost on many.

If these people drove there and are staying in their groups, what really is the risk of that? They’re outside, doing outside activities. We have seen strict lockdowns not work (LA, Germany, others). The only thing that works is being a small island (Taiwan, NZ, Hawaii), and since we can’t just pull that geographical oddity out of our bums, we have to deal with what we’ve got.

The people have to find a way to pay their bills. We can’t just print this money, it doesn’t come from nowhere, and your energy company isn’t a charity and WILL get their dough.

[BigMama1]

But we aren’t talking about toxic relationships. We’re talking not going to horse shows. Working from home if you can. Doing shopping online or via curbside pickup instead of going in a store. Not going to large church services, or hosting parties, and crowding into restaurants and nightclubs. Staying home if you can to make things safer for those essential workers out there who can’t stay home.

[trubandloki]

Hasn’t this topic been debated endlessly already?

[endlessclimb]

Yep, and it’s clear some won’t ever understand what it’s like to be poor with no income coming in. I’m done.

[BigMama1]

I’m pretty sure someone upthread (Oreo’s Mom?) said we shouldn’t bother trying to prevent every death. So yes, her comfort apparently is more important than some people’s safety.

Am curious which lives she feels aren’t worth the effort to save: old people? Fat people? Diabetics? People with heart conditions? Cancer? High blood pressure? Illegal immigrants? People in prison? Homeless people? How about doctors? Or teachers? Or people who ride horses?

Which people in her own family would she be willing to sacrifice in order to keep the economy humming along?

[Bristol_Bay]

The original question was should the horse show be cancelled? I didn’t hear anyone say it should, just that we shouldn’t go. I wouldn’t go anyway (no horse and never showed except schooling anyway), but if I were magically in charge of this type of activity in this county, I would say yes, cancel it. Horse shows were cancelled in March when cases were much lower and it worked to flatten the curve. The state guidelines said it best, that horses need exercise, people need exercise, go and do it safely. But a horse show is not that.

It’s mixing households. It’s people in close quarters. And it’s inherently riskier than riding at home.

You can support your local economy and your horse community without traveling to this horse show at this particular time.