I’m a Grade V para dressage rider from New Zealand. One of my tests has shoulder-in on the centre line (if I’m clever I’ll attach the test). I was taught that my shoulder is what should be on the marker for a movement ie halt at X, trot at C, etc, but with shoulder-in, of course the horse’s shoulder is in off the track. There are no directives in the test as to placement of the shoulder-in on the centre line.
This weekend gone, I received the comment “1/4s should remain on centre line”. I wasn’t able to talk to that particular judge but asked another judge who replied she wouldn’t care about placement as long as the angle and bend was correct.
I hope to ask the judge in question at Nationals in two weeks time, but interested to hear what others think.
I think what matters is that the shoulder in is a true shoulder in–i.e. you move the shoulders in, not let the haunches fall out. Therefore, by definition, if you started in the right place, and do the movement correctly, the haunches must be and stay on the centerline. And that is the difficulty factor of the movement, especially as there’s no fudging it with the judge at C.
The test call for X to G shoulder in left. It doesn’t matter if the shoulders are « not » on the marker. It’s at the same height as it.
You have to straigthen the shoulder at G before turning left at C.
This weekend gone, I received the comment “1/4s should remain on centre line”. I wasn’t able to talk to that particular judge but asked another judge who replied she wouldn’t care about placement as long as the angle and bend was correct.
Indeed, your horse’s quarters should remain on center line. Like when you do SI on the long side, your horse hind legs stay on the track.
You turn on center line, and only move off the shoulders in. If the quarters swing out, it might become a legyield of some sort.
That other judge is wrong. Placement is important. Geometry is important. It’s one of the first thing to worry about.
I hope to ask the judge in question at Nationals in two weeks time, but interested to hear what others think.
You shouldn’t have to talk to the judge.
I’ve actually never talked to any judge about any tests I received. Judges are not paid to teach you.
This should be talked with your trainer.
It’s basic placement.
You should learn how to ride your pattern properly prior to competing because, IMMHO, it’s a lot of money spent to lose points on details like this.
I’ve seen this too often, it’s unfortunate.
the volte sets up your shoulder in. as you return to X from the volte continue up the center line , in shoulder in , return to straight at G using the horses shoulder as your reference. It is the same movement in the more basic tests where the circle proceeds the shoulder in up the wall.
this is the US rule book go to page 455. The illustration for SI shows that the hind leg remain on the required track( in your case the center line) and the shoulders are displaced from the track
“1/4s should remain on centre line” this comment is saying that instead of a shoulder in , you probably rode a leg yield up the center line. Most likely you lost his quarters through what would be your outside leg/ aids.
this advanced test has a lot of ring craft in dealing with movements to, on and from the center line,. The essence and challenge of this test ,which you should be working with a trainer long before a show happens, is the placement of movements off the wall .
These movements show that you have control of and the ability to place the shoulders where needed and that the horse is within your aids
I was trying to figure out if it was saying 1 of 4 hooves should remain on CL or what. Quarters. Totally reasonable abbreviation, and my brain was not working right.
Thanks everyone who gave feedback - as I move toward tests requiring this, it’s helpful to have these responses in mind.
You shouldn’t have to talk to the judge.
I’ve actually never talked to any judge about any tests I received. Judges are not paid to teach you.
We often have a group chat with the judges at Nationals and they’re always happy to answer any questions.
This should be talked with your trainer.
It’s basic placement.
You should learn how to ride your pattern properly prior to competing because, IMMHO, it’s a lot of money spent to lose points on details like this.
I’ve run through the tests with her and never had a problem. This is the only time I’ve had a comment about placement.
I don’t see the comment being about placement in relation to the letters. This is a common comment about the quality of the si. You most likely lost the hind end out
DreYou are lucky judges don’t mind gathering and chatting with you. This is not something that happen a lot around here.
That doesn’t mean judges aren’t friendly or open to discuss, on the contrary, I just wanted to say that they aren’t paid to coach people at shows and it would be endless if they started doing that on a regular basis. Especially at bigger shows.
You know you can ride other tests?
If you have your FEI/National dispensation card, stating which grade and which equipment you need, you can do all the regulard tests with your own needed equipment.
My friend did 1rst level with her rein handles.
You don’t have to do the FEI Para tests. This is only if you intend to compete on a higher level and want to reach the games.
It’s like the young horses series. You don’t have to (you are not limited to) do the FEI 5 yrs old if you ride a 5yrs old.
I was responding to her response to merry go round. I / we are saying this para t est is equal to USA third level or euro medium level. This is the level that many people never reach. We are not reference her para grade, we acknowledge the difficulty of the test. The OP, in my opinion, is not understanding the comment about the horses quarters. It is not about the letters it is about the quality of si.
As stated above, it’s the shoulders that come off the track (the centre line in the case of the pig movement) and the quarters stay on the line.
If you have access to an arena with a mirror on the short side, preferably in the middle, but even by the corners will do, you can fix your perception of the pig. Next will be to make a rake mark/roller line in the sand that approaches the mirror at a perfect 90 degree angle.
Ride your line normally a bunch of times, taking care to ride straight. Then ride your shoulder in on the centre line making sure that your horse’s hind feet stay on the prepared line/previous hoof prints and that the front feet come off the line in a proper shoulder in. As you ride it, check not only your horse in the mirror, but your perspective. What has changed about what you see? If you look straight down that line towards your judge/mirror, what has changed in the way you are positioned. You will no longer be looking directly between 2 ears. Make note of what you see and how it relates to your point of focus (mirror/judge/letter).
Brain game wise, I like to get my concentration on those hind legs. I really want to feel that they are solid under me and I can feel every step. Just because we call the movement shoulder in, doesn’t mean that the hind legs aren’t the mosty important part of it .
I was not referring to your Para Grade. If you are going to ride the equivalency of a Third Level test, you should have an understanding of the basics gymnastic composition of the movements. S/I, and H/I are gymnastic movements meant to help strengthen the horse and develop his hind end carrying ability. In order to do so, they must be ridden correctly. As pointed out previously, the 10 m circle is standard set up to schooling. S/I
It sounds as though you are riding a level above your education.
If you ride down the centre line – or on any straight line – and your horse isn’t straight, it’s worth trying a slight shoulder-in position. It helps with suppleness which makes the horse easier to manage.
