Sick Kitty and ER Vet issues (long and kind of rant-ish)

[MeghanDACVA]

[QUOTE=Mara;5645440]
Meghan, thank you. That was really eye-opening.

So not to derail this, but based on the information you’ve just shared, would it not be adviseable to schedule a blood panel as part of a pet’s yearly workup? Especially for pets over the age of 5-6? That is, of course, if the owner is willing to pay. I would be fine with that if it meant catching something early on.[/QUOTE]

Yes. And alot vets do this as the pets get older. But we forget Or we money grubbing vets don’t feel comfortable asking an owner to fork over a couple of hundred dollars in blood work every yr for screening purposes. So we use the opportunity of anesthesia/surgery to get the blood work done.

[MeghanDACVA]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;5645643]
really? wow. I had always been told that the bloodwork was essential to doing the anesthesia correctly.

of course I still don’t regret doing it for Duncan, but…wow.[/QUOTE]

Anesthetic deaths are due to either CNS failure or cardiac failure. Nothing in blood. Now, anesthesia can AFFECT things in the blood work.

Example: I would never think of anesthetizing a 14 yr old poodle with a grade 4 heart murmur with a slug of ace or dexdomitor and then whatever anesthestic drug of my choosing. Why? A heavy dose of ace or dexdomitor will not make the heart happy, blood pressure will drop and there is a risk the dog will die of cardiac failure. (But then again, it may well live in spite of us!)

So, what if the liver enzymes are up? Once upon a time the drugs we used were all metabolized by the liver, and one could even cause liver disease in some cases. Though that happened AFTER anesthesia, not during it. So, way back then, knowing that the liver worked was a good thing. (though again, ALK/ALKP/TBili/GGT don’t tell us that the liver is really working.)
Nowadays with the drugs we use, this is NOT an issue. And even the few drugs we do use that are metabolized by the liver are now used at much lower doses so it is not an issue.

The key to successfull anesthesia, esp in the less than perfectly normal patient, is monitoring and acting on the monitoring results.

[MeghanDACVA]

Hmm, I guess I either really pis*ed Trakehner off or he has figured out he was wrong.
Still want to know what to do with his sick dog though!!

[prairiewind2]

The bottom line for me in this back-and-forth, justify vet costs or vilify vets discussion is this - are my animals living longer these days with expensive testing and digital x-rays and ultrasound machines, etc. etc. than they did years ago. I can’t speak for everyone, but for my animals, the answer is no. They are not living longer, they are not living healthier.

I won’t go as far as Trakehner, but list me with the people who aren’t happy with their vets. I live in a smallish town, have unusual breeds of dogs and cats, and have a limited choice of vets. My experiences have been mixed, at best. I’ve been a lot happier with my large animal vets than my small animal vets.

One of my vets gave my 12-year-old Borzoi Rimadyl after the dog had been on small doses of aspirin for arthritis for some time - without any down time between the aspirin and the Rimadyl, and without any blood tests. The dog died. I was younger and stupider then, and trusted vets implicitly. (Didn’t learn for some time that there should have been blood tests and down time, so had no clue that the Rimadyl was likely what killed him.) So I stayed with that clinic, and took a different sighthound puppy in for extreme allergies. The vet gave this rapidly growing, giant-breed puppy steroids for the allergies, and when we questioned him about that, he said that steroids were maligned and that he really liked them. That dog died before he was 3 of Addison’s Disease. The same vet clinic was going to declaw our kitten when we had brought him in for neutering. We discovered the error before it was carried out when we called the clinic to check out the time we’d be picking the kitten up, and they didn’t have a kitten scheduled for neutering.

Found new vet clinic - different sighthound with an anal tumor. Tumor removed, dog sent home, but no antibiotics sent with him. We asked why - new protocol. Dog’s incision (unsurprisingly considering location) gets infected.

Same clinic - new kitten who has traveled across country, gets what seems to be some sort of a respiratory infection. Stops eating, also diarrhea. Vet diagnoses ingested string and does two barium tests and multiple (12) x-rays with new digital machine. $700 later vet declares it pneumonia and sends kitten home with antibiotics. Along the way, the vet literally snarls at me because I ask if I can bring the kitten food he is used to rather than feed him a Hills food that has massive amounts of pork - when kitten has never had pork and already has diarrhea. “Why can’t you have some faith in us?” he asks me angrily. (Ironically, this is just before I get the $700 bill for the misdiagnosis. Good thing I appreciate ironical humor or I might have blown up at him.)

This is only some of our wonderful experiences with vets around here. We’ve been calling around to find a new clinic - one vet got angry because we wanted to pin him down on how many GDV operations he’s done, and what his success rate is. I consider this a vital piece of information because I have sighthounds.

So before some of you get a snarly with those of us who are less than trustful of vets, you might consider that we have had experiences that informed our opinions. I have had vets that I loved, just not here. I know how hard it is to be a vet, and I know that even the horribly incompetent vets were probably trying their best. That isn’t much comfort when my cat dies in the clinic following a dental. (Third clinic in this case.)

Not all vets are wonderful, and yes, I think some are venal. But in any case, my animals lived longer years ago, before all vets had digital x-rays and dozens of expensive tests and ultrasound machines they don’t know how to use.

And yes, I’m becoming one of those dreaded customers who asks lots of questions and will even doubt what the vets tell me. I’ve had to learn a lot about animals, their health problems and treatments in the last few years, just so I have an idea whether the vet has a clue or is making it up as s/he goes. This is not something I wanted to do, but ultimately, I am the one responsible for my animals’ health and so I’d better try.

Liz

[SquishTheBunny]

Liz - absolutley! There is a good percentage of General practice vets that DONT have the current information in treating animals. THe firts place that prescribed rimadyl after aspirin - wow, I would never see that vet again!

As far as the second vet not prescribing antibiotics - well, thats to this day a controversy. There is a huge debate on dispensing antibiotics if there is no current infection, especially in towns with lots of dogs interacting the amount of MRSA + animals is really amazing. However, with a rectal mass, chances of infection are quite a bit higher than a lipoma removal on a shoulder.

As for your kitten - vet sounds like he was being proactive…kitten with anorexia and diarrhea is usually GI related, or at least started that way. In oderate to severe cases of pnemonia your vet would have been able to auscaltate it, you should have also been able to notice a respiratory difference. Without those obvious signs GI would be what made the most sense - hence the barium series. If it was an aspiration pnemonia, it likely started GI and the contents were then aspirated. Who knows, but I wouldnt particularly want to leave this vet - sounds like reasonable diagnostics and when the barium series came out normal they were able to find another issue and treat the cat. As for hospital food - that response from your vet was immature, however, doesnt necessarily mean they are a bad vet.

[SquishTheBunny]

OK this is for all you anti-ER vet people…What would you do in this case?

10 year old intact male Golden Retriever
UTD on vaccines and heartworm, no regular bloodwork done.
No historical medical problems with exception of seasonal allergies.
Not on any current medication.

Presents with lethargy and anorexia for 24 hours.
Usually a very good eater.
Able to walk, but wants to lie down frequently.
Gums are pink and mildly tacky.
Distended but unpainful abdomen.
No vomiting, No diarrhea

Your initial exam with the vet goes like this: Yes, your dog is very mildly dehydrated and acting quite dull. His physical exam shows no enlarged peripheral lymph nodes and good skin condition. His abdomen is slightly potty, but non-painful on palpation. Limbs unpainful.

What would you allow your ER vet to do?

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;5647709]
OK this is for all you anti-ER vet people…What would you do in this case?

10 year old intact male Golden Retriever
UTD on vaccines and heartworm, no regular bloodwork done.
No historical medical problems with exception of seasonal allergies.
Not on any current medication.

Presents with lethargy and anorexia for 24 hours.
Usually a very good eater.
Able to walk, but wants to lie down frequently.
Gums are pink and mildly tacky.
Distended but unpainful abdomen.
No vomiting, No diarrhea

Your initial exam with the vet goes like this: Yes, your dog is very mildly dehydrated and acting quite dull. His physical exam shows no enlarged peripheral lymph nodes and good skin condition. His abdomen is slightly potty, but non-painful on palpation. Limbs unpainful.

What would you allow your ER vet to do?[/QUOTE]

explain that I had $X to spend, what does s/he recommend?

then, I’d spend the money.

[SquishTheBunny]

OK, what is your budget for your beloved dog? Here are the priceoutlines.

Physical Exam $145 (standard) + here are the available and suggested tests to you:

In house quick assessment tests (blood gasses, PCV, Total Protein, BUN, lytes, Bili, Glucose, pH, lactate and base exesses, oxygenation status) EKG, Blood Pressure $125
Abdominal Radiographs $150
Thoracic Radiographs $175
Serum biochemistries and CBC $75
Urinalysis and Culture $50
IV Fluids with 24 hours non ICU hospitalization $275
Quick Assessment ultrasound (for fluid in abdomen) + abdominocentesis and cytology $200
Ultrasound $475 (done by specialist)

Vet suggests that for gold standard diagnostics ALL shoud be done (with exception of emergency abdominal ultrasound), but understands financial concerns and will work with YOUR decision on what you want to do. Vet gives you reasons why all COULD be quality diagnostics for your dog, yet none are guaranteed to give results (because in that case, you’d have to go to a psychic) he knows your dog is ill, and thinks all these tests could help pinpoint why.

Which would you want to spend your money on in the case stated above, with having financial constraints?

(And this is not to be rude, just wondring what clients think is most important!)

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;5647858]
OK, what is your budget for your beloved dog? Here are the priceoutlines.

Physical Exam $145 (standard) + here are the available and suggested tests to you:

In house quick assessment tests (blood gasses, PCV, Total Protein, BUN, lytes, Bili, Glucose, pH, lactate and base exesses, oxygenation status) EKG, Blood Pressure $125
Abdominal Radiographs $150
Thoracic Radiographs $175
Serum biochemistries and CBC $75
Urinalysis and Culture $50
IV Fluids with 24 hours non ICU hospitalization $275
Quick Assessment ultrasound (for fluid in abdomen) + abdominocentesis and cytology $200
Ultrasound $475 (done by specialist)

Vet suggests that for gold standard diagnostics ALL shoud be done (with exception of emergency abdominal ultrasound), but understands financial concerns and will work with YOUR decision on what you want to do. Vet gives you reasons why all COULD be quality diagnostics for your dog, yet none are guaranteed to give results (because in that case, you’d have to go to a psychic) he knows your dog is ill, and thinks all these tests could help pinpoint why.

Which would you want to spend your money on in the case stated above, with having financial constraints?

(And this is not to be rude, just wondring what clients think is most important!)[/QUOTE]

hypothetically? Lets set an arbitrary limit of $500. Then I’d ask him which should be done. This is HIS area of expertise. Remember I am not one of the anti-vets posters either. And right now I’m thinking about what Meghan said…something to the effect of - we can talk about this or I can take care of your pet. Now I’d think the quick assesment for $125 should be done…that should set some parameters, shouldn’t it? If only by elimination. I would also think IV fluids would be something that would not harm and might at least keep my dog alive till I could see my own vet. This puts us at $270 (is the exam really $145? That seems a little high), and if the exam is 145, we’re at $415 already. So the rest I’d leave up to him, with emphasis on the $500 limit.

[dressagetraks]

I’m not one of the anti-vet posters, either, but I definitely have a financial limit on the pets. I make no apologies for not being the Jacksons (Barbaro’s owners) with ability to pay unlimited vet bills, and I don’t think you need to be the Jacksons to be a responsible pet owner. That isn’t me trying to be the vet or ask for discounts or freebies, just saying that as you all have financial considerations (overhead, etc.), so does the owner usually, and just as legitimate.

LOVE my vets. I took in Emily Dickinson, head barn cat, about a year or so ago when she turned up at breakfast call drastically 3-legged lame and in distress. I thought she had a broken leg at first, and receptionist thought that was a good possibility, too. She asked me, even before I could mention it myself, “Do you have a financial limit for this cat?” Perfectly matter-of-fact, absolutely no judgment, no implication by tone or expression that I would be being a horrible pet owner for having one. I said yes and gave the limit and said at that point, since the cat clearly had something very wrong, we would euth instead of going on. Receptionist wrote this down. They shaved the leg before doing x-rays, for instance, to do a wound exam even though they said they thought it might well be broken, too, to try the cheaper option first and save x-ray money unless needed, and that found the problem. She had a badly infected bite of something, abscess extending clear up her leg. She actually did require surgery and some drainage and debridement. Came in far under my limit. She was immediately better and is doing perfectly fine now.

But when a customer says, “I can only spend X,” this doesn’t necessarily mean, “I challenge your vet expertise,” or “I don’t care about this animal,” or “I want you to discount everything to accommodate me,” or “I think you’re an overpriced money grubber,” or “You all just try to pad the bill.” A good bit of the time, it probably really means, “I can only spend X,” with the owner already feeling bad about it and wishing that limit could be higher. Money is, unfortunately, a fact of life.

[wendy]

Money is, unfortunately, a fact of life.

so why don’t more people buy pet health insurance? I like not having to consider cost when my pet is ill.

although I have to agree with some of the rants- I don’t do “yearly” exams, why? I don’t do “dentals” because since I don’t feed cheap kibble it’s not necessary; and if any vet suggested “routine” bloodwork I would walk out. And doing “bloodwork” on a young obviously healthy animal before a neuter is just silly.

[prairiewind2]

First off, I seem to hear a bit of sarcasm in your first question. “Budget for your beloved dog…” IOW, if you don’t spend all that we vets think you should spend, you don’t love your dog. Never mind that the physical exam is overpriced (if you do the minimal things that our vets do) and that I may have lost my job, my COBRA has run out and I have Type I diabetes or heart disease (all hypothetical, but then this is a hypothetical question, yes?). Never mind that as the dispenser of services, you have an incentive to get the customer to spend as much as possible. (Maybe you aren’t that kind of vet, but maybe you are, and we customers have no way of knowing the truth.)

But skip all that. We’ll assume that no judgement or sarcasm was intended in that first question. We’ll assume that you truly aren’t trying to pay for that ultrasound machine by getting as many people to use it as is even remotely necessary. We’ll assume the world is as it should be, perfectly honest.

I’ve never had a Lab, so I’m not familiar with the sorts of problems that beset the breed. I can only assume that 10 is oldish for a Lab. (My expertise is with sighthounds, as I’ve said.) With the sorts of giant breeds I’ve had, I’d be thinking of two possibilities - heart and GDV. Symptoms don’t fit GDV perfectly, but then I’ve known of many sighthounds that partially torsed and didn’t show pain right away - and anyway, that is the thing that strikes terror in sighthound owners and is always a consideration. But cardiomyopathy and other heart problems crop up a lot too, and sometimes rather quickly. Some of them can lead to swollen abdomens. Of course, ulcers and other things can cause bleeding into the belly, though the gums are pink so maybe that isn’t happening.

I’ve never scrimped on my animals. I’d probably have most of the tests done, though maybe not the overnight stay. My particular sighthound breed is very sensitive, many have torsed after stressful things such as overnight stays at the hospital or kennel, so I would only leave my dog there if something immediately life-threatening was found. Where I live, there is no overnight care at the clinics except in emergencies, and the dog might well be better off at my house with the IV stuff here. We’ve done that in the past. I would get IV fluids if the vet recommended them, either staying with the dog while the fluids were dispensed or taking the dog home with the equipment.

If I got the ultrasound, I wouldn’t waste my time with anyone but a specialist. Not around here, anyway. Of course, there are no ultrasound specialists here, but some of the vets are set up to send the ultrasounds (and x-rays) to specialists elsewhere. We’ve had that done and I considered it money well spent. It would obviously be better to have the specialists actually do the ultrasounds and x-rays, but that’s the price we pay for living here and not in a big city.

I have to say, though, that for that initial $145 Physical, you’d better do more than look in my dog’s ears and eyes, and listen to his heart. Because $145 is way too much for that.

Liz

[prairiewind2]

[QUOTE=wendy;5648351]
so why don’t more people buy pet health insurance? I like not having to consider cost when my pet is ill.

although I have to agree with some of the rants- I don’t do “yearly” exams, why? I don’t do “dentals” because since I don’t feed cheap kibble it’s not necessary; and if any vet suggested “routine” bloodwork I would walk out. And doing “bloodwork” on a young obviously healthy animal before a neuter is just silly.[/QUOTE]

Quite a few of my friends have had pet insurance, and dropped it. Over the long haul, it almost never pays for itself. Instead, people just put those monthly payments into a bank account for pet care, and almost always they come out ahead.

BTW, there are some people who think that health insurance - both people and pet - has helped drive health care costs to the moon.

As far as blood tests go - I do believe in blood tests on dogs periodically, even when they are young and healthy. I want a basis for comparison, and the best way to start is when they are young and healthy. My particular breed can have some normal readings that are abnormal or near abnormal compared to most breeds, so it’s good to get a baseline when they are youngish and healthy.

But dental? Dental is a real money cow for most vets. Here anyway, they don’t actually do the dental themselves. Their techs do them. But you aren’t charged accordingly. My dogs are all trained from puppyhood to permit me to scrape their teeth if/when they need it. I do this not to save money, but because anesthesia is always a danger, and to sighthounds in particular.

Liz

[magnolia73]

I feel like they expect you to spend, spend, spend. What makes me upset is that in the same practice, you can have varying thoughts. When my Jasmine cat died, the one vet was flabbergasted that bringing her in for dialysis was a no go, while the one who euthed her commented that her blood panel revealed more than just kidney issues and that I was doing the right thing.

My other cat broke her pelvis and the vet was clearly irritated that I would not take her to a surgeon, to the point that she did not communicate aftercare. I told her very clearly that $1000 was my limit, and certainly a surgery with a specialist would be more. If the cat was in pain without surgery, I was willing to euthanize. Within 2 days the cat was moving and in two weeks jumped out of her crate.

It seems far easier to get equine vets to give you the cheapest, cheap, expensive and most expensive scenarios. With the small animal vets, they seem to go expensive right off the bat.

I know it is well meaning, and a desire to see the animal treated to the best that can be done.

[Mara]

I know a number of people with the attitude that they will spend plenty to treat, but not several thousand to diagnose. For example, a friend with a cat who presented with symptoms that might have indicated meningitis OR a brain tumor (I’m sure there were other possibilities as well - it’s been a while). It would have been quite spendy to pursue a definitive diagnosis, and friend already knew she could not afford to treat a brain tumor. So - spend $1200 or so to find out that cat has to be euth’d? Or treat for meningitis and hope for the best?

They did the latter - heavy antibiotics and pain medication as needed. Sadly, the cat got worse after a few days and had to be euth’d anyway. But - and this is important - my friend’s vet totally understood why they chose this treaatment route. Never was my friend made to feel guilty because she didn’t send Harry off to UGA for several pricey diagnostics.

And really, there may come a time when I might have to decide to forego an extra test or two in favor of the “kitchen sink” treatment approach. I hope to God not, but you can’t ever rule anything out. What’s the point of breaking the bank to find the cause if you then can’t afford the treatment? (For clarification - I’m not talking about totally/mostly preventable conditions. I’m thinking more along the lines of rare cancers, or some oddball infectious disease).

[alabama]

@threedogpack;5645224

Does this mean you never saw this vet before, or that the front desk staff did not know you, or they did not pass it on to the vet? You’ve never had an opportunity to discuss these issues with him? Did you explain your reasoning to him when he did call? Over the last 5 years, I’ve built a relationship with my vet and we’ve talked several times about how to handle different situations. He pretty much knows that I’m going to do comfort measures for an elderly dog or a dog that has a poor prognosis, but that’s because we talked about it before it happened or at the first sign of illness.

Sorry. AT&T has an outage in my area so I haven’t been able to check back in until now (at work).

I’ve never actually met this vet in person. I have moved and this (12 yo cat visit) was my first visit to this vet. I had to drop him off on my way to work. I dealt with the staff, who were very nice btw. When I said the vet called me, I should have said the vet’s office people called. I did talk to the vet after he examined and worked on my cat. He’s very nice and seems quite interested in how I picked his practice and what other animals I had, etc.

I took a 1 yo cat in a couple of weeks ago because he was lethargic and felt a little warm to me. Vet treated him and then called me to explain what he thought was going on. When he found out that this was a kitten of a former stray/feral from the colony that I’m supporting we had a good discussion on spay/neuter/release and some studies that had been done on stabilizing feral colonies. He seems like a good guy and I hope to meet him in person when I take some of my cats back for their routine shots.

So, no, I never discussed this with the vet. The staff just said it was policy. That’s fine. They weren’t ugly about it and if they had to do it, ok. The only people at a vet’s office that I’ve had a problem with were the “oh you must not want pain meds” people. It was obvious that they thought I was just too cheap to want pain meds because I didn’t want the blood work.

What Meghan explained re. the blood work makes sense but I’ve never, ever been told that. The only explanation I’ve ever gotten was that the animal could die from the anesthesia.

[dressagetraks]

@wendy;5648351

so why don’t more people buy pet health insurance? I like not having to consider cost when my pet is ill.

Okay, look at it from another side of the equation. Living in the country, I do, of course, get animals dumped here. There are also hobos who wander in. EVERY SINGLE barn cat I have is off the streets. Every single cat who decides to stay gets neutered/spayed as soon as I can trap them, gets rabies shot, gets flea stuff and wormer.

If I bought pet insurance for every single animal on the property, that would almost certainly never pay for itself. And I, too, know several people who had it, concluded it wasn’t worth it, and dropped it. Instead, saving some each month for expenses. However, I have to balance that savings against other considerations for an animal.

So Emily goes in. Assume that she did have a badly broken leg and got referred to a specialist. Assume that the surgery was over $3000 (I know someone whose cat broken leg was well over $3000. Heck, I know someone whose Beagle’s surgery was $13800.) There is also the fact that Emily would NOT get along with one of my house cats, as they are both extremely alpha females. Also that due to the construction of my house, I cannot isolate a cat in one room. Therefore, any kind of recuperation inside, which I’m assuming a complicated break would require, would run into some problems. It would have to be in some kind of a crate. Emily would not deal well at all with being in a crate, even without Rosalind to contend with.

So, do I spend a large proportion of the pet account on Emily’s leg, knowing that she will be very unhappy throughout forced inactivity and recuperation, not knowing if another animal might have another emergency next week, and another the week after?

I do not think that is the correct decision to make.

And having pet insurance absolutely does not mean that there is no bill at all that you would ever have to worry about. Pet insurance, as health insurance, does have limits. Take the $13,800 Beagle surgery. His owners were independently wealthy. I have no idea if they had insurance, but the surgery wasn’t a problem financially. Good for them. But that surgery was a bit “out there,” and if they had insurance, insurance might have questioned it and recommended euth instead. So even if they had insurance (which I don’t know), I doubt the insurance would have paid easily on that claim. But if any of my cats or my dog comes up with a $13,800 injury requiring 6 months of follow up pet PT and rehabilitation, even if I had insurance, I would euth. Heck, even if I were independently wealthy, I wouldn’t have had that surgery done in that case. (Beagle lived 9 months, BTW. And was in his teens in the first place.)

[threedogpack]

@alabama;5648588

I’ve never actually met this vet in person.

thanks for explaining this, it makes more sense now.

What Meghan explained re. the blood work makes sense but I’ve never, ever been told that. The only explanation I’ve ever gotten was that the animal could die from the anesthesia.

I’d always been told the “death from anesthesia” stuff also.

[MeghanDACVA]

[QUOTE=prairiewind2;5647209]
The bottom line for me in this back-and-forth, justify vet costs or vilify vets discussion is this - are my animals living longer these days with expensive testing and digital x-rays and ultrasound machines, etc. etc. than they did years ago. I can’t speak for everyone, but for my animals, the answer is no. They are not living longer, they are not living healthier.

I won’t go as far as Trakehner, but list me with the people who aren’t happy with their vets. I live in a smallish town, have unusual breeds of dogs and cats, and have a limited choice of vets. My experiences have been mixed, at best. I’ve been a lot happier with my large animal vets than my small animal vets.

One of my vets gave my 12-year-old Borzoi Rimadyl after the dog had been on small doses of aspirin for arthritis for some time - without any down time between the aspirin and the Rimadyl, and without any blood tests. The dog died. I was younger and stupider then, and trusted vets implicitly. (Didn’t learn for some time that there should have been blood tests and down time, so had no clue that the Rimadyl was likely what killed him.) So I stayed with that clinic, and took a different sighthound puppy in for extreme allergies. The vet gave this rapidly growing, giant-breed puppy steroids for the allergies, and when we questioned him about that, he said that steroids were maligned and that he really liked them. That dog died before he was 3 of Addison’s Disease. The same vet clinic was going to declaw our kitten when we had brought him in for neutering. We discovered the error before it was carried out when we called the clinic to check out the time we’d be picking the kitten up, and they didn’t have a kitten scheduled for neutering.

Found new vet clinic - different sighthound with an anal tumor. Tumor removed, dog sent home, but no antibiotics sent with him. We asked why - new protocol. Dog’s incision (unsurprisingly considering location) gets infected.

Same clinic - new kitten who has traveled across country, gets what seems to be some sort of a respiratory infection. Stops eating, also diarrhea. Vet diagnoses ingested string and does two barium tests and multiple (12) x-rays with new digital machine. $700 later vet declares it pneumonia and sends kitten home with antibiotics. Along the way, the vet literally snarls at me because I ask if I can bring the kitten food he is used to rather than feed him a Hills food that has massive amounts of pork - when kitten has never had pork and already has diarrhea. “Why can’t you have some faith in us?” he asks me angrily. (Ironically, this is just before I get the $700 bill for the misdiagnosis. Good thing I appreciate ironical humor or I might have blown up at him.)

This is only some of our wonderful experiences with vets around here. We’ve been calling around to find a new clinic - one vet got angry because we wanted to pin him down on how many GDV operations he’s done, and what his success rate is. I consider this a vital piece of information because I have sighthounds.

So before some of you get a snarly with those of us who are less than trustful of vets, you might consider that we have had experiences that informed our opinions. I have had vets that I loved, just not here. I know how hard it is to be a vet, and I know that even the horribly incompetent vets were probably trying their best. That isn’t much comfort when my cat dies in the clinic following a dental. (Third clinic in this case.)

Not all vets are wonderful, and yes, I think some are venal. But in any case, my animals lived longer years ago, before all vets had digital x-rays and dozens of expensive tests and ultrasound machines they don’t know how to use.

And yes, I’m becoming one of those dreaded customers who asks lots of questions and will even doubt what the vets tell me. I’ve had to learn a lot about animals, their health problems and treatments in the last few years, just so I have an idea whether the vet has a clue or is making it up as s/he goes. This is not something I wanted to do, but ultimately, I am the one responsible for my animals’ health and so I’d better try.

Liz[/QUOTE]

For the most part I would have to disagree that better medicine is resulting in longer lifes of pets. When I was in vet school (some 30 yrs ago no) we were taught that cats didn’t live past 12 or so, large breed dogs like danes, etc were geriatric at 5-7 and once a pet got cancer (any that we could detect) they were dead. We routinely see cats in late teens and even early 20’s now. Danes, etc are living into their teens. And many many cancers are reasonably treatable.

Rimadyl and aspirin…
Who put the dog on aspirin, and why? How long was the dog on aspirin?
What blood tests were supposed to be done? I don’t know of any so please educate me. As for a “downtime” between drugs, that is highly controversial.
Now, using both at the SAME time is definitely a no-no.
But having said that, there used to be a drug made by Upjohn that was aspirin and prednisone together. We now “know” that is a real no-no. But somehow dogs lived taking it.

Steroids in a young dog and addisons. No, no, no, no. Steroids are what we use to TREAT addisons. They do not CAUSE addisons. Excessive, prolonged use can cause iatrogenic cushings but not addisons.
Again, I know of no contraindications for corticosteroids in young dogs, no matter the breed. So again, please educate me.
Once the dog was diagnosed with addisons, why was it not treated?

I also don’t know what your issue is with pork in pet foods. It is a high quality protein. Cats are obligate carnivores and have a high protein requirement. Unless a patient has a specific allergy to a specific protein, the body does not know one protein source from another.

As for mistakes and mis-diagnoses…they happen. I have made them. I am sorry you had 2 that have apparantly had very negative impacts on you and are preventing you from remembering anything good and positive that has happened.

As for the vet getting funky about you asking how many GDV’s they had done, etc…If you have a dog that you know is at high risk of developing GDV, why don’t you have them pexied as a preventative. Easier and cheaper to do it as an elective than as an emergency.

And yes, you are the one ultimately responsible for your pets’ health. And well educated owners make our lives much easier.

[MeghanDACVA]

[QUOTE=prairiewind2;5648435]
Quite a few of my friends have had pet insurance, and dropped it. Over the long haul, it almost never pays for itself. Instead, people just put those monthly payments into a bank account for pet care, and almost always they come out ahead.

BTW, there are some people who think that health insurance - both people and pet - has helped drive health care costs to the moon.

As far as blood tests go - I do believe in blood tests on dogs periodically, even when they are young and healthy. I want a basis for comparison, and the best way to start is when they are young and healthy. My particular breed can have some normal readings that are abnormal or near abnormal compared to most breeds, so it’s good to get a baseline when they are youngish and healthy.

But dental? Dental is a real money cow for most vets. Here anyway, they don’t actually do the dental themselves. Their techs do them. But you aren’t charged accordingly. My dogs are all trained from puppyhood to permit me to scrape their teeth if/when they need it. I do this not to save money, but because anesthesia is always a danger, and to sighthounds in particular.

Liz[/QUOTE]

Dentals, not that I do alot of them anymore!!..
If you can train your pet to let you brush their teeth, it does make a huge difference.
Dog, and cats, DO get dental disease. I see alot of dogs, and cats, with absolute pus in their mouth from the nasty stuff under all that dental calculus and gum disease.
How often does a pet need a dental? It depends on the pet. Some need it 1 or even 2 x a year, some every couple of years.
There is an actual veterianary dental SPECIALTY. Specialties don’t develope “just cuz”.

And yes, in most practices the techs are the ones that do the dentals. Ever had your dentist scale your teeth? Prob not. But the doctor (DS or DVM) is the one to do the diagnostics, read the xrays, do any extractions or other proceedures. So the scaling is only one part of the “dental”. Oh, and the equipment to do the dental with…not cheap these days.

And BTW, anesthesia can be a danger to ANYTHING. Nothing special about sighthounds these days since we are (hopefully) not using pentobarbital for anesthesia. Ket/val, telazol, propofol, isoflurane, sevoflurane are the drugs used anymore. None of which have the same “issues” as the long acting barbiturates did in sighthounds.