…um why am I being jumped on here? I commented on this thread to say that it happens. What I did or didn’t do about it is irrelevant. I try to mind my own business which I realize is an art form long gone. It was a very low level schooling show. At a recognized show, I probably would have made quite the stink about it. Again, this is side tracking the original topic so I’m signing off this one now.
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Agreed.
‘Proof’ doesn’t even matter. Although ‘proof’ might or might not be found (photos, videos), just being asked about it might discourage her from trying it again.
If you see something, say something …
I would wonder if a blue ribbon is really so important that a rider would want one knowing that they had accomplished nothing, as far as the intent of the competition. But of course the bent thinkers are out there.
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I’ve done a lot of running races and a shocking amount of people are willing to cheat just for a completion medal!
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You aren’t being ‘jumped on’. No one has said anything mean.
You made a comment. Others made a fair comment on your comment, in return. That’s what forums are about.
It can’t be a surprise that people are surprised that you didn’t report it. Most people posting here would have done. That’s all they are saying.
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I’m a bossy old bag and so was perfectly happy to tell off an Australian Olympian on Wednesday who ignored my whistle blasts as he walked along the xc course with his head down looking at his phone while another competitor came up behind him. I don’t care who they are: if it is an issue of safety or risk or discipline or just a big pi55take then I think I should speak up, on behalf of our sport. As I’m old enough to be the grandmother of most of the competitors, I also possess The Finger Of Authority - but I don’t like to wag it too often as I don’t want it’s formidable power to diminish, lol.
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Lol. Don’t mention the microchip…
There’s an UL rider guilty of this….I won’t mention any names.
Witnesses are afraid to come forward because of backlash. Sometimes it is pointless they feel TDs etc. are hesitant to stand up to these well established UL riders.
(I heard all of this info from several people. I’ve been at shows when it’s happened, but never witnessed it myself)
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This is Parent Trap meets Saddle Club next level.
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I can’t imagine wanting to win so badly that I would do something like that . What kind of person does that ?
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Well that could be a heck of a new twist on eventing - can you imagine? A whole new division for folks who have three matchy matchy horses. One for each phase and an extra score for matchiness! It would be a testament to good riding to be able to perform well on three different horses. Just have to rob a bank to afford it.
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I find this rather…interesting.
At my age (68 years old), I’ve kinda started to lose my MYOBishness. Meaning, if this were to happen to/around me, I would have gone directly to the main office/those in charge. I would have “played blonde”, i.e. saying something like, “I didn’t know that you could use two different horses for the three phases.” (Said with an innocent voice.) I WOULD have the number of the competitor, the location of the second horse, whether in the trailer or stall. If those in the office didn’t do anything or pooh-poohed me, I would stand at the start or end of the cross-country course and remark LOUDLY, something like, “It’s too bad that the horse she rode in the dressage isn’t good on cross-country, and she/this rider has to change to this horse instead.”
I don’t know if at the lowest level of competition or an unrated competition if horses are required to be microchipped and be scanned. If so, the “identity” of the two horses could be easily determined.
Thirty years ago, when I first started showing my dog in obedience, there was (to me) something similar. I was watching a class and was startled by hearing a competitor making soft noises to her dog during the heeling patterns. This was noted by two of her competitors who were discussing it quietly between themselves.
I KNEW that this was NOT allowed; if one was having a problem with a lagging dog, one could give an ‘extra’ heel command, but it would result in substantial points off but still could qualify. But the weird thing was was that this dog did NOT need that under-the-breath encouragement; it was an extremely GOOD working dog. Well, that dog placed first in the class, and the two competitors I had overheard talking about it placed second and third.
I have to be honest; I was really miffed by the cheating. You don’t have to win a class (or three) to earn an obedience title. You can be the lowest qualifying score in your class; it was many years before I had a dog that placed first in a class But it bugged me that one or two people may have been cheated out of the recognition they might have earned that day.
Back then, day-of-show catalogs had the names of the dogs and owners. I decided to look up this woman. I then wrote an anonymous letter to this woman and told her she had been heard cheating. I wrote, too, that if I were to witness/hear her do it again at a show, I would LOUDLY say ringside, “Is it allowed to make sounds/talk to your dog when you are heeling?”
I intentionally kept my letter anonymous. I wanted this competitor to be wary that anyone could be me and ‘listening’ as she showed her dog. Funny thing was that later this competitor became an obedience judge.
Just my experience.
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Let’s see how to make a buck from this. Horse A and Horse B; could almost be be twins. Horse A has some problems with jumping, but on a good day can turn out a decent lower level dressage test. But Horse A will likely not ever be a successful lower level event horse. Horse A is the horse listed for the horse trial. Horse A does a dressage test, then is done. Horse B does the cross country and stadium phases. The ribbon goes to Horse A, who never jumped at all.
Unscrupulous owner sells Horse A as a successful lower level event horse to an unsuspecting buyer for a tidy sum. Buyer of Horse A wonders why she can’t ride a clear stadium course and has problems cross country, but thinks it is just her riding and that with more time Horse A will get back to winning form.
So the switcheroo, if it happens, could be a scam for profit. I cannot see this happening at higher levels, though.
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Yeesh. Someone who does this has lost the spirit of eventing beyond all hope.
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Honestly, the only reason I wouldn’t come forward is that it’s so crazy I didn’t think I’d be believed.
If you do notify someone after the fact, I’d say something like, “I know this sounds crazy, but keep an eye on this person next time.”
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Right. I don’t blame @tbchick84 for not saying anything. Not all of us come installed with the energy to deal with someone else’s BS, or the willingness to be crucified when they say something to officials. You’d think it’d be the right thing to do speaking up, but often times it actually backfires on the person courageous enough to speak up.
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True! And this is a little different than, “I think X was not riding in a legal bit” or “X was riding with her spurs upside-down” or something like that, which can be immediately verified.
I might send an email so at least this person can be “watched” at the next show.
I will note, for a schooling show…if someone was doing this without competing–i.e., paying entry, riding in three phases on different horses, but not taking a ribbon or being judged, I would be okay with it IF they told the TD beforehand and cleared it–it’s just why the hell would you take a ribbon?
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I had heard rumors that an UL rider who has a huge sales business has been caught doing this-
Don’t know why it wasn’t made more public.
but this is too shady and dirty tactic for me to ever purchase a horse through them.
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I would agree that there has to be some sort of proof before accusing someone of doing something wrong. Although to me the competitor outing themselves counts as proof.
It does show that the cheating competitor was so sure that there was no other proof, that they would get away with it, that they weren’t worried about telling someone. (Also that cheating people are often more transparent than we would expect.)
I can see how this cheat is possible. The warm-up stewards are watching for back numbers, not horse descriptions. Plus different stewards are often in different warm-ups. The judges and starter only see the horse once.
The biggest thing going for a cheating rider is that no one is expecting this or looking for it. Even in the barns or at the trailers, they just think the rider is showing two horses in one division, especially if the rider gets on each horse at an appropriate time for each phase. I doubt many would notice that a rider had only one back number between the two horses.
The TD and the stewards would need advance warning to watch for it. With a rider number to double-check and a description of the horse that did dressage.
The best verification, of course are photos, showing visible distinguishing features. Photos can also be more easily escalated up the chain of authority and to the recognizing organization. That’s after the fact, of course.
I get that this horse switch is possible to pull off, and I get that people may even be making money from it – I’m still shocked that anyone would do it, though! Are they really so much better off doing life this way ??? They run the risk of being caught and eventually someone catches on. Being outed, burning one bridge after another, maybe having to move on to a new location, again and again. 
Wow, that actually triggers a memory or two of a rider here or there in that exact situation!
Now you have made me wonder !!! 
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Not for nothing – Most of us are not keenly observant or remembering of the specific location, size and shape of white markings of a horse that we don’t know. Especially if we didn’t get to view the horse up close for a moment. We might notice only that a horse had minimal white, or did have a a couple of socks and a face marking.
Even if two similarly-shaped, same-color horses have slightly different markings, if we didn’t see them together, would we notice the difference? What if we had seen the other horse a couple of hours ago? Amongst a lot of other horses we don’t know? And double-especially if they are both plain-ish.
Could we say later which leg had the short sock or the white pastern? What was the shape of a star or a blaze? Even how many legs had white on them.
Some of us might notice, but I’m guessing that a lot of us might not.
I can see how horse-switching might work if someone was bold about it.
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The competitor outed herself but I’m also gonna say…despite the stereotype a horse person can always recognize a horse, I’ve occasionally mistaken different horses (without chrome, of fairly nondescript bay/chestnut appearance) at barns or shows in different contexts (like when one is filthy with mud, or I always see X horse kitted out in a dressage saddle versus a jumping saddle and it’s different today). Or sometimes I’ll say, “hey that grey pony Lollypop of X’s is unusually spicy today,” and then someone will volunteer, “oh, can’t you tell she’s riding Satan’s Spawn at this show (another 13h grey pony).”
Like, no one wants to feel like the non-horsey person who is like, “how many bay horses does my friend own”?
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