Ridgeback, saying something is “Banned” doesn’t mean that the government has made a law against it. Even if we were talking about something and somebody said it was “illegal” wouldn’t mean that the government made laws against it. It is correct to say that long whips are illegal in dressage in the US, but that doesn’t mean that the government has made a law against it.
And…just because some AR groups are extremist, doesn’t mean that every animal rights issue is extreme.
[QUOTE=Rhiannonjk;3126121]
Ridgeback, saying something is “Banned” doesn’t mean that the government has made a law against it. Even if we were talking about something and somebody said it was “illegal” wouldn’t mean that the government made laws against it. It is correct to say that long whips are illegal in dressage in the US, but that doesn’t mean that the government has made a law against it.
And…just because some AR groups are extremist, doesn’t mean that every animal rights issue is extreme.[/QUOTE]
Very true about the law issue…sorry
I just find it odd to have a rule for something like clipping whiskers on the nose when many high level dressage riders in Europe and the U.S. don’t turn their horses out…I suppose the rule makers think it’s cruel to clip whiskers which pretty much has been proven doesn’t hurt them yet they feel it’s ok to take a grazing animal and leave it in a box for 23 hours a day…Most AR groups are extremist which makes it hard to get behind any of them…JMO of course. I realize you can’t control if people turn out their horses I just think the whole banning of clipping is odd…
I believe this non-clip rule came from the EU. So member countries are required to comply. I don’t think it’s necessary to become snarky at European countries - when in reality when you look around - the younger generations in our own country seem to feel bathing, shaving, shampooing themselves is an option.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3126948]
I believe this non-clip rule came from the EU. So member countries are required to comply. I don’t think it’s necessary to become snarky at European countries - when in reality when you look around - the younger generations in our own country seem to feel bathing, shaving, shampooing themselves is an option.[/QUOTE]
Who’s being snarky?
Hey - just the facts.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;3127042]
Hey - just the facts.[/QUOTE]
Exactly the facts are it’s an odd rule…especially when many riders don’t turn their horses out…just seems a bit hypocritcal to me… Don’t have a problem with the people just the group that made such a silly rule…
ridgeback you are right on the no-turnout being possibly worse than clipping whiskers. However I’ve heard that’s going to change too here and horses will be required to receive a considerable amount of free turnout. It’ll be interesting to see how that will fly with some of our over-injury-phobic folk here LOL.
And yes the no-amputation-rule came from the EU initially and it was each single country’s responsibility what to make of it.
I would say Fairview summed up the situation superbly.
Whether Whiskers are a tactile organ or ‘regular’ hair one may argue about of course. But the medical pov over here is they are tactile organs and that’s what the guideline was based upon. I wouldn’t go as far as to consider it a matter of personal freedom whether or not I am allowed to clip my horse’s whiskers.
I do like a neat look I just don’t believe it should be a priority over the horse’s wellbeing.
I think in the first place clipping the whiskers came up because it will make the horse act more agitated and look fancier at in hand shows in the Arab World. If so that would not be a method I could agree with.
umm, I believe that was the 60’s to early 70’s - remember Woodstock? :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Kareen;3127076]
ridgeback you are right on the no-turnout being possibly worse than clipping whiskers. However I’ve heard that’s going to change too here and horses will be required to receive a considerable amount of free turnout. It’ll be interesting to see how that will fly with some of our over-injury-phobic folk here LOL.
And yes the no-amputation-rule came from the EU initially and it was each single country’s responsibility what to make of it.
I would say Fairview summed up the situation superbly.
Whether Whiskers are a tactile organ or ‘regular’ hair one may argue about of course. But the medical pov over here is they are tactile organs and that’s what the guideline was based upon. I wouldn’t go as far as to consider it a matter of personal freedom whether or not I am allowed to clip my horse’s whiskers.
I do like a neat look I just don’t believe it should be a priority over the horse’s wellbeing.
I think in the first place clipping the whiskers came up because it will make the horse act more agitated and look fancier at in hand shows in the Arab World. If so that would not be a method I could agree with.[/QUOTE]
That would be awesome if they get to be turned out:) I guess I would think whiskers would be for their wellbeing if I saw hunter/jumpers who get turned out probably on average more often then dressage horses coming in with face injuries but they don’t…Maybe evolution has made it so the whiskers aren’t important anymore as they were when they were wild…??
Clipping whiskers has been common in Hunters, QH, for EVER, and certainly will not change their behavior/‘attitude. Those disciplines LOOK for quiet and calm. The foals’ muzzles that I clip don’t make them show off at Devon <sigh> if only it were that easy. :winkgrin: I have never seen a horse that behaves in any way differently with a shaved muzzle than they do shaggy. They don’t bump into things, don’t get injuries, latch on to udders without notcing any difference, etc.
I would definitely consider shaving muzzles personal freedom - SERIOUS personal freedom.
I hope you guys realize I was being (attempting to be) funny and not snarky by my arm pit comment.
Just trying to light up what was becoming a bit too seriously critical of each other’s clipping habits.
Fairview - the difference from the 60’s/70’s to now was when we graduated from College we had to get a JOB and leave home and GROW UP. So by the time we hit 22 - the reality of being an adult hit home. Now the age of reality seems to be somewhere in the late 30’s.
Kareen - I’m sure on a percentage basis the # of horseowners in Europe who practice no turn out compared to here is very low. Plus in Europe most of the horse owners and riders are actually HORSEMAN. Here - we have alot of “weekend warriors” who are solely focused on WINNING RIBBONS - in all disciplines. Many have trainers on them all the time until they get to the shows. And GOD FORBID you actually suggest to someone that they hack their horse outside the arena or the ring…YIKES!!
The UK is in the EU.
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;3127287]
Clipping whiskers has been common in Hunters, QH, for EVER, and certainly will not change their behavior/‘attitude. Those disciplines LOOK for quiet and calm. The foals’ muzzles that I clip don’t make them show off at Devon <sigh> if only it were that easy. :winkgrin: I have never seen a horse that behaves in any way differently with a shaved muzzle than they do shaggy. They don’t bump into things, don’t get injuries, latch on to udders without notcing any difference, etc.
I would definitely consider shaving muzzles personal freedom - SERIOUS personal freedom.[/QUOTE]
I come from the hunter world to dressage. I can’t stand a shaggy muzzle! I’m in between clippers right now and it’s driving me mad. I tried my kids safety scissors, but was unsuccessful. New clippers are top on my Must Buy list.
I think it’s a weird question because it assumes that the shaved muzzle is the ideal because perhaps it is the ideal in the hunter world. It’s not considered the ideal in the dressage world. Most people DON"T CARE if you shave the muzzle or not. Judges don’t care. BNT’s won’t chide you for not doing it (unless maybe they are from hunter backgrounds).
Not everyone likes the muzzle shaved. Not everyone likes the bridle path shaved half way down the neck as is done in some disciplines. Not everyone likes the pulled mane, etc etc.
You say you are from the hunter world. Next you’ll be asking why the tail is not plaited and why the gaits aren’t like your hunter’s gaits. Different styles. Different customs.
[QUOTE=egontoast;3127671]
I think it’s a weird question because it assumes that the shaved muzzle is the ideal because perhaps it is the ideal in the hunter world. It’s not considered the ideal in the dressage world. Most people DON"T CARE if you shave the muzzle or not. Judges don’t care. BNT’s won’t chide you for not doing it (unless maybe they are from hunter backgrounds).
Not everyone likes the muzzle shaved. Not everyone likes the bridle path shaved half way down the neck as is done in some disciplines. Not everyone likes the pulled mane, etc etc.
You say you are from the hunter world. Next you’ll be asking why the tail is not plaited and why the gaits aren’t like your hunter’s gaits. Different styles. Different customs.[/QUOTE]
If you think it’s a weird question then why are you in this thread…oh yes silly guestion…
I don’t care if people clip there horses or not I just wanted to see what the reasons were on why they didn’t…I’ve heard the argument you wouldn’t clip a cats whiskers and these are the same people who don’t turn out which I find funny and a bit hypocritical… Now I know it’s a silly rule/law…No need to ask why the gates are different been in this horsey world 30+ years…LOL I think if you read the whole thread everyone aknowledged that it is a personal preferences on rather to clip unless you live in the EU that is where I said it got weird…:lol::lol::lol::lol:
I don’t clip my Lipizzaner at all because I’m one of the few dressage people at a barn that is primarily h/j and eventing. It drives everyone NUTS that my horse looks like a big white goat.
Hah! I enjoy that 
Eileen
I clip my horses’ noses because I think it looks better. I don’t touch the eyes or ears, though. Leaving the whiskers is a European custom, not a dressage custom. 
[QUOTE=canticle;3127778]
I clip my horses’ noses because I think it looks better. I don’t touch the eyes or ears, though. Leaving the whiskers is a European custom, not a dressage custom. :)[/QUOTE]
This wasn’t really a european question in the beginning more of a U.S. thing but it turned into what the European’s do because of their rules…
It’s not a burning question in the dressage world because for the most part, no one cares.
I used cat whiskers as an example to show by analogy that it’s odd to hear someone posting on a dressage board OMG what’s wrong with you people that you don’t shave your horses’ faces. It’s just not important in dressage.
Oh and the horses are turned out almost everyday and, no, I don’t clip my cat’s whiskers.:no:
The armpit stuff was a joke . Didn’t realize this was such a serious issue for some people. hehe
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