Similar to draw reins, but not . . .

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=pattnic;8581047]
It sounds like you are describing Vienna reins, which, as pointed out, are not the same as Lauffer (or balancing) side reins.

Vienna Reins: http://www.railandtrailtack.com/images/products/1199.JPG
Lauffer Reins:https://www.albenisa.de/out/pictures/master/product/1/8f5e54d2c5b1e549145a527cf9da365d_p1.jpg[/QUOTE]

The Vienna reins looks the closest so far, set up wise - if the surcingle were a saddle. Although the picture shows a much tighter rein than what I saw being used.

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=ThreeFigs;8581066]
These reins are useful for such horses who need to learn to relax, swing and use the back. I used them on my gelding rehabbing him from a back injury. He had the injury when I got him.

Tiger Horse, do you have hills in your area? Trail riding up and down hills also helps both relaxation and use of the back.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, no hills (I’m in Illinois). We took the winter off and have been doing lots and lots of walk work - stretching into contact - stressing relaxation and using his back. He’s come a long way.

We moved to a new barn and have started with a new trainer. Long lining right now with the addition of some cavaletti. She wants to see him more relaxed and using himself better. Trot work right now is too “up and down” as she put it.

Sendenhorse - I saw that page last night - it was very informative.

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8581083]
what is a Schumacher rein? never heard of it. thanks[/QUOTE]

I found this explanation:

It is a single rein that attaches to the girth, runs under the flash (or noseband if you prefer) and then is held in the hand on the horse’s hollow side. It has several uses; some people use it to help teach a horse to not bob the head. My trainer likes it for riders who have a decent independent hand/seat and are learning how to make all the tiny corrections that are needed to keep a horse engaged on the aids; when the horse comes against it, the rider feels it right away in the hand and can make their correction. I use one on my horse who I had trouble keeping round consistently due to undermuscling - my trainer could keep him there, but I couldn’t and the SR allowed me to get him “there” quickly and then loosen it and proceed with our work, but without building all the wrong muscles that come when you are constantly fighting. I like that I can put it on and have it if I need it, but I can also let it out and do all of my free walk and stretching exercises without inhibiting the horse at all. It has its downsides, like everything, but can be a good tool in the right circumstances IMO.

[ThreeFigs]

I watched the Schumacher rein in use at one of Mr. Schumacher’s clinics. He ran it under the cavesson noseband, not the flash. Yes, it works beautifully with horses that want to brace against the hand but does not adversely affect the horse’s mouth.

[quietann]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8581039]
the ones I used functioned more like a martingale only went into play when horse threw head up[/QUOTE]

That sounds more like a German martingale. Did the extra reins clip to Ds on your riding reins?

(I used a German martingale for a while, but ultimately it gave the mare another way to lean. Not an entirely negative experience, but every time I’ve revisited it, I’ve been reminded why I gave them up.)

[Countrywood]

Yes the reins clipped back to the side reins, a german martingale. Same experience you had, plus when horse caught his front leg in it when cantering I swore never to use a gadget like that again when riding.

He tripped, then the rein broke and was flapping wildly around, luckily he stayed calm but could have been a mess

[Kerrysmom818]

The “reins” in question (not sure they are actually reins, since they are not held in your hand) are shaped liked a Y - one end (single end) goes to girth, the other ends go thru the bit rings and snap onto the dees on saddle. Sounds kind of like a modified martingale, now that I think about it.

Countrywood - that sounds terrifying!

[SuzieQNutter]

It sounds like an extension of a mare harbour ough. (Sp?)

This goes from the girth, splits in 2. Goes through the bit and clips to D rings on the rein.

A market Harborough is like having automatic draw reins. Reins that go to the hand instead are manual draw reins.

Market Harborough are good for beginner riders. Draw reins are for advanced riders.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8581647]
It sounds like an extension of a mare harbour ough. (Sp?)

This goes from the girth, splits in 2. Goes through the bit and clips to D rings on the rein.

A market Harborough is like having automatic draw reins. Reins that go to the hand instead are manual draw reins.

Market Harborough are good for beginner riders. Draw reins are for advanced riders.[/QUOTE]

http://www.eurosportnz.com/images/market_harborough_004521.jpg
https://www.speedgate.co.uk/ecomm/for-your-horse/saddlery/training-aids/kincade-market-harborough.htm

wow, no end to the straps and things that people want to put on the horse!

[dressurpferd01]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8581647]
It sounds like an extension of a mare harbour ough. (Sp?)

This goes from the girth, splits in 2. Goes through the bit and clips to D rings on the rein.

A market Harborough is like having automatic draw reins. Reins that go to the hand instead are manual draw reins.

Market Harborough are good for beginner riders. Draw reins are for advanced riders.[/QUOTE]

Riders advanced enough to use draw reins correctly should have no use for them.

[pattnic]

[QUOTE=Tiger Horse;8581618]
The “reins” in question (not sure they are actually reins, since they are not held in your hand) are shaped liked a Y - one end (single end) goes to girth, the other ends go thru the bit rings and snap onto the dees on saddle. Sounds kind of like a modified martingale, now that I think about it.[/QUOTE]

You are describing Vienna reins, just clipped to the saddle dees rather the girth or being used with a surcingle.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/shadowfx01/media/Solaris/Vienna%20Rein%20Demo/IMG_7784.jpg.html

Or here’s a version with snaps: https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/tory-leather-vienna-side-reins-12050

[SuzieQNutter]

Market Harborough’s are used at our local riding school. They are primarily used to protect the horse from beginner hands. Of course the best way is to teach riders on the lunge with no reins but this is the next best thing and these horses can be used for beginner riders for one lesson snd the reins unclipped for a more advanced rider in the next class.

Draw reins I have used twice in my life. The first time was on my first horse. We were learning contact together. He didn’t quite understand. He ended up giving but would give and not keep the contact. Rider error of course but I was just learning as well.

We put the draw reins on for 5 minutes. That was all that was needed. It brought us together we both came to an understanding from it and we continued to go the same without the draw rein afterwards. I think that shows how powerful they can be, but also they were introduced for those 5 minutes at a time that both the horse and rider were ready for them in their training.

Fast forward a decade or 2 and I was having a lesson on a Grand Prix Dressage horse. We normally rode him in a double bridle, but one time I had a lesson on him and he was in a snaffle and I rode in draw reins with my normal reins. Giving with the draw reins the same as you would the curb rein on the double bridle. He went well in them.

The SRS only uses side reins for lunging. I follow their lead and that is all I use now with a loose ring snaffle and no noseband. I don’t have a horse trained highly enough for a double bridle at the moment. Maybe they will get there one day…

[SendenHorse]

Yup.

[Kerrysmom818]

[QUOTE=pattnic;8581729]
You are describing Vienna reins.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/shadowfx01/media/Solaris/Vienna%20Rein%20Demo/IMG_7784.jpg.html[/QUOTE]

I guess I am! Not quite the same set-up since they are used under saddle, but yes basically the same.

[3rottenponies]

[QUOTE=ThreeFigs;8581218]
I watched the Schumacher rein in use at one of Mr. Schumacher’s clinics. He ran it under the cavesson noseband, not the flash. Yes, it works beautifully with horses that want to brace against the hand but does not adversely affect the horse’s mouth.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a wonderful tool to have. Does it go under the cavesson on the side of the nose or on the bottom?

[Lord_Helpus]

I have seen them used for lunging, but please people, NEVER use a fixed training aid while riding. If something goes wrong you cannot loosen the reins to let the horse have freedom to recover.

Incredibly dangerous!

[Kerrysmom818]

I did confirm with trainer last night that they are Vienna reins. Used for a short time for a specific problem, then taken off.

[ThreeFigs]

3rottenponies, the Schumacher rein is threaded from the girth, under the noseband (in between the jawbones, where there’s a groove for a little bit of play with the rein, and to the rider’s hand. Which hand is a personal preference, or perhaps has to do with a horse’s more resistant side.

All these devices have their place and time in training. Perhaps not for all horses, and certainly not all the time, but they can help the horse (or a newbie rider) find the way.

[Magicboy]

I do know the Vienna reins , for lunging only not riding, as Klosterhof reins. Anyone else know that name? A good tool but not for riding in only lunging

[ThreeFigs]

Klosterhof reins are also known as Vienna reins. I’ve seen them called German reins, too.

I can’t see any difference between a German Martingale and a Market Harborough, but I’ve not compared them side by side in real life. All these similar/identical devices with different names – confusing!