Sitting trot at Training Level -- good or bad?

[MysticOakRanch]

@ToN Farm;8789545

Check out the Regional and National winners at Training and First and see whether they sit or not. I say most do. A good rider can connect a horse better at sitting trot. Most horses showing at Training Level are not 3&4 years old. The funny thing is that I’ll bet the ones that are 3&4 are ridden by pros that do sit. It’s the novice riders on older horses that rise because they can’t sit well.
Decades ago, sitting trot was required at Training Level Test 3 and at Novice Level eventing.

A training level test is ~5 minutes, which just a couple minutes of trot. It’s not like you are sitting the trot for long periods.[/QUOTE]

Can’t speak for all the regions, but here in Region 7, I’d say about half the Open Riders posted at Training Level then most sat at First Level. And most of the Training Level horses were 4 year olds. I think there is (developmentally) a huge difference between Training and First Level.

I’ve seen some top riders post even at First Level - riders who go to Lamplight for YHC, riders who go to Europe. Maybe it is different in Region 7 (California), but we have a lot of good riders. I don’t want to drop any names, but I’ve seen some big names posting even at First Level!

I agree, it is easier to connect a horse and get them under themselves when you are sitting (if you have a good seat), but I was taught that you stay off a horse’s back as much as possible for the first six months to year under saddle - and then you only sit for short stints - not an entire test, but maybe a 20 meter circle. It is more about the horse’s strength and development, and health of their back.

I’ve gotten good scores both sitting and posting. Generally, I won’t sit a young horse unless they feel explosive - then I do it for my own safety. Easier to stay on if something goes wrong…

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8790739]Has anyone seen people post some and sit some of the same test? I have not. I personally think it looks like a person can’t fully commit to sit the whole thing.

I have always heard it’s not allowed to switch it up, can’t find that answer specifically.

As for the question about doing part sitting, part posting -absolutely allowed! Just be aware that some horses will feel “disrupted” if you suddenly start sitting, and if that changes their tempo, or they get bracey, you will see a loss of points. I’ve heard judges discuss that issue - it isn’t against the rules, but if it disrupts the flow of the test, you’ll get hit on rider score.

ETA:
http://jecballou.com/to-sit-or-not-to-sit/

http://greyhorsematters.blogspot.com/2010/07/sitting-vs-posting-trot.html

Just some interesting observations on posting and sitting on young horses…

[Beentheredonethat]

Oh dear, but you complained before when you were told to knock it off and made fun of me reporting it to mods to stop that. Now it’s not OK? Now it’s only OK to stay on topic, when you wouldn’t before? You need to make up your mind.

Perhaps you should stop posting as facts things you don’t know and then this issue will go away.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8791095]
Oh dear, but you complained before when you were told to knock it off and made fun of me reporting it to mods to stop that. Now it’s not OK? Now it’s only OK to stay on topic, when you wouldn’t before? You need to make up your mind.

Perhaps you should stop posting as facts things you don’t know and then this issue will go away.[/QUOTE]

REPORTED.

Care to keep this on dressage? I am flattered by your attention but not playing. I’m not recovered from your thread that I got shut down this afternoon.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8791090]
Can’t speak for all the regions, but here in Region 7, I’d say about half the Open Riders posted at Training Level then most sat at First Level. And most of the Training Level horses were 4 year olds. I think there is (developmentally) a huge difference between Training and First Level.

I’ve seen some top riders post even at First Level - riders who go to Lamplight for YHC, riders who go to Europe. Maybe it is different in Region 7 (California), but we have a lot of good riders. I don’t want to drop any names, but I’ve seen some big names posting even at First Level!

I agree, it is easier to connect a horse and get them under themselves when you are sitting (if you have a good seat), but I was taught that you stay off a horse’s back as much as possible for the first six months to year under saddle - and then you only sit for short stints - not an entire test, but maybe a 20 meter circle. It is more about the horse’s strength and development, and health of their back.

I’ve gotten good scores both sitting and posting. Generally, I won’t sit a young horse unless they feel explosive - then I do it for my own safety. Easier to stay on if something goes wrong…

As for the question about doing part sitting, part posting -absolutely allowed! Just be aware that some horses will feel “disrupted” if you suddenly start sitting, and if that changes their tempo, or they get bracey, you will see a loss of points. I’ve heard judges discuss that issue - it isn’t against the rules, but if it disrupts the flow of the test, you’ll get hit on rider score.[/QUOTE]

yes, this makes sense. Thanks for this answer. that could be why my trainers felt it was better to pick one.

I like what you guys said- I can try to be more aware of if sitting might help my horse. I know I get into “modes” doing things- this made me see things in a new way! I will experiment with sitting and see. My horse is fine with the work, he’s above training level.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8791090]
Can’t speak for all the regions, but here in Region 7, I’d say about half the Open Riders posted at Training Level then most sat at First Level. And most of the Training Level horses were 4 year olds. I think there is (developmentally) a huge difference between Training and First Level.

I’ve seen some top riders post even at First Level - riders who go to Lamplight for YHC, riders who go to Europe. Maybe it is different in Region 7 (California), but we have a lot of good riders. I don’t want to drop any names, but I’ve seen some big names posting even at First Level!

I agree, it is easier to connect a horse and get them under themselves when you are sitting (if you have a good seat), but I was taught that you stay off a horse’s back as much as possible for the first six months to year under saddle - and then you only sit for short stints - not an entire test, but maybe a 20 meter circle. It is more about the horse’s strength and development, and health of their back.

I’ve gotten good scores both sitting and posting. Generally, I won’t sit a young horse unless they feel explosive - then I do it for my own safety. Easier to stay on if something goes wrong…

As for the question about doing part sitting, part posting -absolutely allowed! Just be aware that some horses will feel “disrupted” if you suddenly start sitting, and if that changes their tempo, or they get bracey, you will see a loss of points. I’ve heard judges discuss that issue - it isn’t against the rules, but if it disrupts the flow of the test, you’ll get hit on rider score.[/QUOTE]

yes, that makes total sense.

Lots of good ideas here. I will experiment with using sitting trot in shorter segments to see if that helps. I might not do it at a show, but i like it as a tool.

I’m hitting that second jump anyways, so I can’t escape it now LOL

[Manahmanah]

Mixing posting and sitting is perfectly acceptable. Though I will warn - if you are not good at sitting the trot you should post the entire thing. It is a huge pet peeve to judges when people insist on sitting trot poorly because they think it will score better. Better to post if you have any doubt.

[StormyDay]

[QUOTE=mjhco;8790932]
There IS no rule saying you cannot switch. Period. End of story.[/QUOTE]

My mind has been blown. I am so excited, I am going to do both in my next test! :lol:

[Moderator_1]

We removed some posts with some bickering carried over from another thread. Please keep the personal issues off the threads.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[exploding_pony]

I trained with an S judge for years and remember a specific conversation about this very topic at first level.

She said to make sure it makes sense. For example, post your lengthening then sit the leg yield. You wouldn’t do the reverse, you know?

[Rain]

Based on feedback, maybe I’ll give it a try! Since it’s a schooling show and not the Olympics, nothing to lose. I don’t have mirrors at home, and there’s generally no one around to video, so I don’t have a good sense of how (or if) my horse moves differently sitting vs posting.

[Silverbridge]

[QUOTE=exploding pony;8791404]
…make sure it makes sense. For example, post your lengthening then sit the leg yield. You wouldn’t do the reverse, you know?[/QUOTE]

Exactly, great example. I have to sit the leg yields in order to do them better. It’s different for everyone, but I sit when it leads to improved and more clear aids, for me, and my horse. It’s not so much a plan in advance as what it feels like at the time.

Another place to sit in First 3 is when you finish the free walk-to-medium walk after the diagonal. You pick up trot at H, then a canter depart onto a 15m circle at C. With the rebalancing through the corner and the preparation for the canter, it comes very naturally to me to sit that part of the trot. And then, there’s a change of lead through trot in First 3. Much easier to sit those few steps of trot.

Then for the last part of the trot in that test, I will often rise for the lengthening and then continue rising for the remaining trot and the half circle, to centerline, halt salute. I ride a horse who’s the opposite of hot. And after trot, walk, canter both ways, canter shallow loops and that last trot transition, she’s asking with her entire body, “Are we done yet?” My rising for that last trot work helps me tell her to keep her back up and please go-go-go right up toward the judge until that final salute. It just makes sense to rise when needed, in instances like those. To me.

There are fewer examples in Training 2, which calls for more basic movements than First Level tests.

But if it feels like sitting at Training 2 connects you more for what’s being asked from letter to letter, then sit. If rising will get your horse’s back up and moving out in a true working tempo better than sitting will, then rise. Tempo is what probably most training level amateur pairs need to show more of-- more forward and more energy. So most should rise, and keep rising. But definitely not all!

I found that my best rides were when I did it by feel, not planning ahead but riding moment to moment. And I really didn’t even remember or realize, until seeing the videos later, that I had switched back and forth. Same for my First Level FS, at which I’ve so far had nice scores.

[belgianWBLuver]

[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8791682]

…

I found that my best rides were when I did it by feel, not planning ahead but riding moment to moment. And I really didn’t even remember or realize, until seeing the videos later, that I had switched back and forth. Same for my First Level FS, at which I’ve so far had nice scores.[/QUOTE]

I am currently at L1T1 with my guy. I will agree with this ^ at my current level.
I remember decades ago when I was a better, stronger rider (and younger!!) I would sit pretty quickly at the lower levels because I had the core to sit anything. I had made it to PSG and rode that test a dozen times back in the 1990’s. Sitting made the “feel” better and I was better able to close and open my seat to balance my horse and “prepare” with half halts for the next movement.
Now, I use sitting trot to soften and in half halt, and rising to lengthen (as in the diagonal from S - F) or lengthen (as in the long and low circle at C).
I do feel however ( and this is just my personal opinion) that if and when you can, sitting just makes the entire test more harmonious to the eye albeit not a requirement at First L.