so bummed for zenyatta!

I dunno…really looked like she was climbing a little the first quarter, like she may have been having a little trouble handling the track. I disagree she did not like the dirt in her face…once she got close enough to get into it? She was flying and never checked.

And after watching a rerun of the stretch drive? She looked like she got to Blame and he just dug in and hooked up with her-would not be passed. Maybe she would have passed him if the race had been 50 yards more-maybe not. He is younger, has had fewer starts and loves the track.

That’s horse racing…and HOTY??? Based on??? She is a great one, maybe the best mare ever but…HOTY is based on each years performance-she has…what…2 gr II wins and a gI second.

Are we forgetting Goldikova regularly running in the equivalent of Gr1 stakes against the boys? Wiining her THIRD straight Breeders Cup effort?

Don’t get me wrong here, not knocking her, she was really fun to watch, great for the sport and her connections were great to her. But let’s stay a bit more realistic. Blame will likely be HOTY with…IIRC…3 GI wins plus the BC Classic. Goldikova is probably the best female.

[QUOTE=findeight;5207559]
I dunno…really looked like she was climbing a little the first quarter, like she may have been having a little trouble handling the track. I disagree she did not like the dirt in her face…once she got close enough to get into it? She was flying and never checked.

And after watching a rerun of the stretch drive? She looked like she got to Blame and he just dug in and hooked up with her-would not be passed. Maybe she would have passed him if the race had been 50 yards more-maybe not.

That’s horse racing…and HOTY??? Based on??? She is a great one, maybe the best mare ever but…HOTY is based on each years performance-she has…what…2 gr II wins and a gI second.

Are we forgetting Goldikova regularly running in the equivalent of Gr1 stakes against the boys? Wiining her THIRD straight Breeders Cup effort?

Don’t get me wrong here, not knocking her, she was really fun to watch, great for the sport and her connections were great to her. But let’s stay a bit more realistic.[/QUOTE]

Actually, all of her wins this year were G1’s.

The fields were less than stellar for the most part but they were G1’s.

I don’t think she’ll be retired. Moss said he had to rethink her retirement. And that was in a statement made on November 2nd, so before the Breeders Cup. Especially with how it ended, I don’t think she’ll wind up retired.

:confused: I don’t know if that is the best thing to do with her. We all like seeing her and the owners like to see her out there. But…

I just hate seeing any athlete who passed on the opportunity to go out a winner (and 19 wins and 1 second is quite a winner to anybody) hang on too long.

Plus, the Jockey Club is natural cover only, no egg harvesting and surrogate mothers. She will be prime age to let down over the winter, start her breeding career and deliver her first foal at age 8.

I hope they retire her, even though we all love to watch her run. Seems pretty obvious that Sherriffs isn’t as fond of traveling as some trainers and they’ll be hard pressed to find anyone willing to run against her if they stay in Ca. I don’t think it’s nearly as fun to watch her annihilate 3 or 4 other mares as it is to watch a race as great as that one yesterday.

Aside from the history of great racing mares not often making great or even good broodmares, I think Zenyatta’s attributes are also shortcomings as a breeding animal.
Even if she were a stallion, would you really be trying for babies that are huge and slow-maturing? Most owners dream of Triple Crown races, and that is way too early if she passes on her size and slow development. And if she were a stallion and we were to see a lot of little Z’s, I am afraid of how many would end up crippled or worse because the trainers/owners would not wait for them to develop.

As for HOTY, tough choice. I love Z for her running style. Brought a lot of excitement to racing. But realistically, she did stick with the mares and didnt beat the boys this year. If she is retired, she will be hard to evaluate down the road except for her impact on fans. I don’t think she has world or track records (does she have stakes records?). This might be due to her style of just doing enough, but it doesnt show that she is the fastest. She had that monster win in the BC last year and her “almost” this year. A beautiful mare, carefully managed with an exciting running style, but with only 20 starts as a six year old and only two against the boys, I can’t see her being spoken of with Secretariat, Seattle Slew, et al.

Hilter reacts to Zenyatta’s loss in the Classic… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YutMhv1gQ
:lol::lol:

as someone posted in the other thread…how about the Dubai World Cup? One more race? Just a thought…especially considering the Moss’s were making noises even before the BC that they MIGHT consider running her again. I really wouldn’t want to see her run for another whole year, she’s got nothing left to prove and deserves a nice retirement, but just that one more race?

“Ok, that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!”

Zenyatta Without Tears

Well, tears optional…

She ran her race, as she always does. And in truth, being master of only that one way to race is not going to leave you undefeated forever, not when racing a handful of real contenders at once.

She seemed to put behind her every other variable: shipping, strange barn, strange track, strange weather, strange dark-hour-yet-false-light, strange “exuberant” crowd, and even the strain in her own people, beforehand – John Shirriffs and Mike Smith both looked gray. Or maybe she didn’t completely, and that’s why she was so clearly less relaxed-yet-purposeful both before and during the first part of the race. Her action seemed forced this time, at the back: not so much loping as struggling, perhaps contending with all those elements, as well as with herself and Mike.

In the end, though, it still seems to me that it came down to her finally suffering the inherent flaws in the way she races: so much ground to make up (after she struggled, this time), and then, so many good horses still dug in during her pass on the outside, at the last. And yes, one very good horse in the lead and not about to give it up, just because he saw her coming.

But hey: they make movies --“Tin Cup” for one – about athletes who have to do it their way, or no way. (I think there may even be a song about that?) And that’s what her team embraced in her, along with all of us who loved her for being her, so dramatically and so vibrantly.

She did what she does, and she did it brilliantly, with fire and great heart. Yes, Team Z could have chosen to test her earlier this year. To seek out adverse circunstance and better competition. But it’s not what they chose to do because it’s not what they wanted to do, any more than Zenyatta wants to race another way. The last thing that Team Z wanted to do was to “toughen her up.”

I think that’s the secret. Even more than they didn’t want to risk the perfect record except in the Classic, I think they didn’t want to “toughen her up” to get it done. Does this make the Mosses too sentimental, and John Shirriffs, too beholden to the whims of the owners (in the way of all trainers, after all)? Does it prove Team Z to be lesser horsemen, in this instance, because it made Zenyatta a lesser racehorse?

Maybe. But if that may be the issue, it may not be the point. In the minds and hearts of Team Z, this year was a grace year, and their way and her way of racing still left her all but a nostril away from being able to capture the Classic, anyway. She came home strong and she will come home safe. They and she did what they did for the sake of the experience they wanted to have racing, and racing her. And I cherish them for that.

Team Z: they’re only human. And Zenyatta: she’s still something else.

You know, I am terrified that something catastrophic would happen to her, and the odds are always there, but then, if they retire her, she could die foaling- far too many do.

This mare loves what she does. She has a life that is built around her, with 14 people laying hands on her a day, and taking care of her every need… They want to take her away from that, knock her up, turn her out, and say, have a nice day? Nahh.

And what are the odds, really, of her producing anywhere near herself? She has a far better chance of the aforementioned dying during or after foaling, frankly. Think of the best ones-- how many have come close?

I think that the Mosses are going to think first, and foremost of the mare. Shireffs also has a quality that makes me adore him- he regards her as an intelligent being. Bless the man!

How about as an eventer?

I absolutely agree. Foaling is dangerous as well. Look at what happened to Kincsem. The horse won 54 races out of 54 starts and died from colic complications after her last foal. I most certainly don’t call being turned into a broodmare a form of ‘retirement’.

[QUOTE=findeight;5207559]
HOTY is based on each years performance-she has…what…2 gr II wins and a gI second.

Blame will likely be HOTY with…IIRC…3 GI wins plus the BC Classic. [/QUOTE]

She’s got 5 wins for the year, all G1 stakes, and 1 G1 place.

Blame’s only got 3 Grade 1 wins, including the Breeders Cup (the other two were the Whitney and Stephen Foster). His first race of the year was a Grade 3 and a Grade 1 place.

[QUOTE=dreamswept;5207737]
She’s got 5 wins for the year, all G1 stakes, and 1 G1 place.

Blame’s only got 3 Grade 1 wins, including the Breeders Cup (the other two were the Whitney and Stephen Foster). His first race of the year was a Grade 3 and a Grade 1 place.[/QUOTE]

You can’t seriously compare a restricted G1 in Cali to an open company G1 win against all comers???
Blame’s record is superior anyway you dice it. He ran in the bigger races against the better quality animals and won three and was second once. On the one occasion they went head to head, Blame wins.
I just don’t see how you can even compare the records.
People are getting a little to caught up in emotion here, you guys need to step back and look at this rationally.

[QUOTE=jaimebaker;5207731]
I absolutely agree. Foaling is dangerous as well. Look at what happened to Kincsem. The horse won 54 races out of 54 starts and died from colic complications after her last foal. I most certainly don’t call being turned into a broodmare a form of ‘retirement’.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Blame will be a blameless winner of Horse of the Year. With the competition and circumstances he faced this year, Blame has the better race record, no question. And he beat Zenyatta and the other ten contenders: fair and square and brilliantly, besides.

He’s the best racer, this year. In fact, stepping outside the racing world and thinking of the pop culture pantheon that Zenyatta tapped into, it’s a little as if, for the moment, Blame has been cast in the role of Camilla to Zenyatta’s Diana.

But unless people start calling Blame “horse-faced”, or start piling up flowers and lit candles outside of Barn 55 (with Zenyatta trying to wolf down every blossom on each walk outside, and the barn staff racing around with fire extinguishers)…the emotion inspired by this horse, both before and after this race, has its own horse sense.

If nothing else, Blame has done something that no other horse has been able to do: beat Zenyatta.

Quite frankly, I think this was the best race I’ve seen from her. If there’s any shame in it, it’s that we didn’t get to see her perform like this more during the year. Sure, she might not have gone 19-0, but if she had consistently performed against open company the way she did yesterday (even with a loss or two), her case for HOTY would be much stronger.

Regardless, even if she retires tomorrow, she’ll be remembered as a fantastic mare. Well done, Big Z.

I would love to see this. She has proved she can run with the best of them, she obviously still loves her job, so if she comes out of this 100%, why not consider it? They no longer have the undefeated streak to worry about.

She didn’t ‘lose’ - she came second by a nose - a couple more strides and she may have caught him. This takes nothing away from Zenyatta as I think everyone would agree. But the feeling of loss had me almost in tears - equal to when Real Quiet did not take the Triple Crown by a nose. But, as a three year old, that did affect how he was regarded.