DG123, I’m sorry and did not mean anything nasty by my post. In all honesty if you asked me right now what my Coth password is/was, I’d have no idea - and I have only the one device I use (which is also set up to log in automatically).
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I think I addressed your post. Horses in the pasture aren’t working over their topline. That’s a very simple distinction. You don’t seem to be listening to the answers you’re getting.
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A horse can actively work saliva in their mouth with their tongue without anything in the mouth itself. My point was the science is what it is - foam is whipped saliva, and whipping comes from the saliva being worked enough to cause air bubbles to form.
The “why” the horse is active with their tongue is perhaps the larger question - I competed in dressage for many years and have long since moved on from the competitive discipline. It is - IME - the only discipline that focuses so much on the matter to the point of actually encouraging it artificially, which suggests it’s less of a real understanding of the why and more of a fad.
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Like the other poster said, you are not listening. I gave you the biophysics. Maybe the science is too much for you.
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You cut and pasted a block of text. And then gave your opinion.
But carry on. I don’t tend to try and discuss much with folks who feel the need to be rude.
I think reading foam is like reading tea leaves or sweat marks on a saddle pad.
I had a horse that foamed generously and he was a very tense horse in dressage. Great little XC and SJ machine, but true dressage was tough for him after 80+ career starts in racing and some physical baggage. He would always froth up a storm in dressage but remained relatively dry-mouthed in XC & SJ. For him, I think he was just anticipating and tense, ready for that next phase.
My current gelding foams more on one side than the other. Incidentally, that’s the side that has some dental abnormalities. He will foam up on a tough hack, but also will lightly foam during dressage sessions too. Doesn’t seem to be related to any particular type of work.
I’ve had horses be supple and on the bit with little foam, and horses tense and not at all on the bit (but in a “Frame”) foam a lot.
I do think horses that foam more or salivate excessively may not be swallowing - either there is a lot of tension or they may be ridden BTV… We’ve all seen it.
My take is that it can mean something, but it also can mean nothing. Depends on the horse, the bit, and the hands controlling the bit.
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I think I’m with you beuwolf. Its a very individual thing with horses. In my own horses, I’ve observed just the “lipstick” when they are working well, and relaxed. The only time my best horse had a ton of foam was when he was seriously stressed, and was definitely whipping his tongue around in his mouth. He also had it only on one side.
Interesting subject. Thanks for a great discussion.
My mare had a good bit of greenish foam after our last ride (she managed to snatch a chunk of hay on our way out to the ring), and she most definitely was not on the bit or totally relaxed (though we did have some moments). In fact, looking at the video later, I can tell that the new bit we are trying is most definitely NOT going to work, you can see way too much of it at the sides. Probably part of why she wasn’t wanting to go on the bit, it definitely doesn’t fit her.
As an aside, anyone need a NS Verbidend bit? :lol:
My current horse believes she is a dog and bits are her chew toys*. She will foam standing in the aisle without having so much as moved from where she stood to be tacked up. Annoying AF but nearly 7 years on and many, many changes of bit in the first couple years to try to help solve the “problem”, she is who she is and if her mouth is mostly closed and her tongue inside her head, I’m good.
I’ve mostly ridden good foamers over the years, but nothing really at either end of the spectrum. Good foam, but not crazy foam, and minimal foam, but not dry mouth. This current horse is like, “Let’s put whipped cream on EVERYTHING! I’ll make it myself! Here have some foam! And YOU get some foam! And YOU get some foam! And YOU way far off there the other side of the property, YOU get some foam!”
*true story I had to stop buying lovely $oft pla$tic bit$ for her because she ate them down to ruined in a matter of weeks
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Its interesting to me that horses ridden English foam up but not western horses. Even the horses with curb bits with rollers that are rolling it like crazy with their toungue and you can hear it from a distance.
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There’s a difference between a learned, well-expressed opinion and science. I doubt that there has really been much scientific study on this but horse people will have their opinions, and some can be quite eloquent. That doesn’t mean they are right.
And some have a degree in biomechanics with actual dissection, research and computer modeling experience. But carry on.
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Trailtrottin, I didn’t know that! And you don’t see it in hunters or jumpers, do you? Is it just us weirdo dressagers???
Well, you do see it on some. But the big difference is western horses are taught to give to the bit, not to move into the bit. They end up behind the vertical way more than dressage horses do. It’s not “acceptance of the contact”. That makes me think it isn’t just the “moving the tongue around in the mouth whipping it up” that causes the foam.
I know humans and horses aren’t the same, but it does make me think, when I am anxious/in pain/whatever, my mouth tends to be very dry. When I’m relaxed, not to much (think slobbering in your sleep haha). That doesn’t mean it’s the same in horses, but I can see that a “dry” mouth could be an indication of too much tension.
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