You were comparing a horse and a cow. The cow looks nothing like the horse. Nice reflection, though.
Really? One was a cow? SMH! 
Looks like as many of you predicted the whole thing died down. Jovian is now with Patrik Kittel if I understood correctly, wife and son are still competing and so doesn’t sound like Helgstrand’s business will really be hurting.
FWIW I had heard a couple years back already from someone who is very well connected in the industry (think olympic level horse owner) that Helgstrand has a mixed reputation. Now I understood what this person meant.
So clearly while pedestrian riders/owners like myself had no clue the people with pockets and connections who were (candidates for) doing business with him most likely knew exactly what was going on but didn’t care enough because clearly the business was going pretty well up until now.
I do think the sentiment in the general public seems to be shifting though. I saw some really critical comments on a recent Lottie Fry’s rride on the FEI page on facebook. Don’t know where this leads us but I’d reckon if dressage starts to get associated with brutality and animal abuse in the same way that e.g. wild animal circus, I imagine the moneyed customers will lose appetite for it pretty quickly too.
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No big $ entities will want to harm their brand via affiliations with an abuser, real or imagined.
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Considering the Isabel Werth masterclass at Helgstrand Wellington, I’m not seeing the power players separating from him anytime soon…
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Money dictates everything… the whole thing will simply die down…
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Exactly. In addition, expect a campaign (that I think has already started) of blaming people for taking this to social media and “killing our sport”. You can imagine how the people will be characterized (“amateur” “keyboard riders” i.e. unworthy to comment on dressage or horse welfare). None of this is new. I’m kind of sick of seeing it over and over again. Adults take responsibility and make change.
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I agree. It’s an awfully short sighted way to be for them.
I went to the masterclass yesterday and both he and Isabel mentioned the elephant in the room in a roundabout way. They talked about the social license to operate and the need for being transparent in their training etc.
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Did you get the impression this was genuine or simply lip service?
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I think it was extremely genuine. What choice do they have?
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Bahahaha!! That’s rich! From the same people who insist on having warm up rings that are covered and hidden from public view!
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I personally think it’s lip service. I do not think Andreas would have changed anything about his training model had he not been exposed.
The “social license” thing also does not sit right with me. It implies that the fault here somehow lies with the public and not Andreas himself.
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I see a bunch of S judges on Facebook in lockstep with this rhetoric right now.
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Why is it so hard for trainers do just do the right thing by the horses? It would seem all compassion for their wellbing and proper training has gone right out the window. Do they think that people don’t see the results? I guess the number one reason would be GREED. Just do better. Is a ribbon with some writing on it worth what they put these horses through?
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I’m just returning to this thread to see what has come in light of these earth shattering findings to make positive change in the industry for the betterment of the equine athlete. oh that’s right… none.
Patrik Kittle is a business partner of his and has been caught on video doing horrendous things with his horses in recent years.
The bottom line is these people are operating multi million and multi billion dollar stables backed by extensive money. Add into that; that everyone in the industry is still protecting each other and the entire situation. because they’re all GUILTY of it themselves and producing dressage horses at the upper echelon of the levels wanted to seems to require plenty of non-descript training, ahem abuse, methods to get them there
At the end of the day these people will always have some sort of suspect abuse methods in their training behind closed doors because at the end of the day winning is worth more than the quality of life of the animals required to get there. Winning means notoriety and notoriety means investment money and wealth. So it boils down to #1 Money and #2 Winning and the judging at these levels is fostering all of it.
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Yes and no. In Helgstrand’s case I think it’s very much lip service because he got caught and is trying to pass the buck and do PR damage control to save his “brand.”
In general terms, though, I think it’s a fair point for discussion. At one extreme, you have a general (non-horsey) public that increasingly anthropomorphizes and believes in animal rights rather than welfare, along with the small-but-loud minority at the fringes of the horse world that thinks bits, spurs, whips, separating horses from their buddies they’re “bonded” to for work/training, and anything other than pure positive reinforcement is inhumane.
At the other end you have the Helgstrands of the world, disregarding basic horse welfare for the opportunity to make money and gain recognition.
And in between you have a vast middle ground of people at all levels who love their horses and want to do right by them, but don’t necessarily feel that it’s abusive to have a horse work for a living, or have to learn to accept being separated from his barn mates when he’s buddy sour, or wear a bit, or get tapped on the bum with a whip from time to time, but try to do it in a way that causes the horse as little stress as possible.
But when that second group and those extravagant but tense horses are rewarded over and over by judges as representing what the top of the sport is supposed to be, it’s hard for the last group to convince the general public that “we aren’t all like that.”
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They would answer “Because customers want immediate results. They don’t want to wait.”
I suspect we reward the wrong things in horse showing.
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If someone is going all Team Repentance they better go full out blast mea culpa for me to even consider their dedication to change.
I want to see full out self-flagellation or else it’s just a publicity stunt.
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I suspect that is what happened in the case of Sensation. Someone said the horse could be a Team contender, Laura agreed it was possible at some point down the road, someone offered the owners a big grant to aim the horse for Paris, Laura said that was too soon, but the owners didn’t want to wait another 4-5 years for a shot at Olympic glory so they said, “Nope, it’s Paris 2024 or nothing.”
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