So I take it we aren’t allowed to talk about Helglstrand video here?

[ninakl]

I think we have a chicken or egg situation here. Are the way the tests are written driving the way the horses go or did the change in what was rewarded drive the tests?

I sat next to an S level judge as he worked with my trainer on my third level, aspiring 4th level horse as he worked with her on half pass. He stated it is a movement of collection yet has turned into a how far you can you cross your legs extravaganza. He thinks the tests need to be rewritten. My gelding is a Dutch Oldenburg or maybe he’s Danish but his brand is Oldenburg. He has “the look” they like -long legs, short back and long neck. Like a lot of Dutch horses he struggles to stay over his back. But the clinician loved him even though he lacks the knees and hocks they reward. He has three correct gaits and a kick ass extended canter. He loves everything extended and shows promise for piaffe. He is no child prodigy, he is 11. If the tests were rewritten to favor correct gaits rather than wow gaits a lot of the abuse would disappear because there would be no point in teaching the “fancy trot”. I think the young horse classes are a catastrophe because they reward pushing the horse. These purpose bred horses can be pushed a lot and people can be too greedy. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Quality of gaits is not equal to how high can you throw your knees.

[Mardi1]

@Jackie_Cochran

I suspect that many dressage riders/trainers may brush off this worry of mine as the rider’s equivalent of bleeding heart liberalism since this type of riding now seems to be an absolute requirement to win at the higher rated dressage shows.

If they brush it off, it may be because they don’t pay the vet bills, and/or won’t have the horse in their care after its show career is finished.

[Mersidoats]

If that’s what snuck out on social media, I shudder to think of what goes on there. Ugh. Ugly horrid little man.

[Graceyloufreebush]

Sorry but I was the “gilded calf ?!?” and thankful I went because Isabelle was amazing and I do not care where or why she was there . She was honest and her training was inspiring and worth any back lash any one on this post wants to dish out.

[NJRider]

US Equestrian Working With FEI to Investigate "Appalling and Abhorrent"...

[Mersidoats]

I wonder who the whistleblower is who posted the clips on his Instagram. The caption for the clips reads “SOUND ON!!! A typical day of training. Happy horses with animal welfare as a number one priority.” This was not a mistake on the doctor’s part. Someone in the barn chose those clips and caption.

[Knights_Mom]

I hear it’s really bad. (Parra)

[Cowgirl]

Gifting is rampant! But it is really REALLY bad when the gifts go to show officials and organizers, and to national sports organizers. We need to crack down on this!!!

[Cowgirl]

It was VERY BAD decades ago!!! When he trussed up and flipped that horse and nearly killed it, he should have gone to jail. IMO. Why is he still around???$$$$$$

[Manni01]

I so agree but when I mentioned gifts for judges a while ago, I was grilled . Why am I not allowed to talk about this?

[Curly_Feather]

@CanteringCarrot

I’d get reamed out for not having the “nose in front” by my trainer and probably most of the clinicians I’ve ridden with. I know this because “nose in front,” as in nose in front of the vertical was shouted at me in German many a time took a minute to work though that with my little Iberian, but it was not soo extreme.

I wish I had German trainers to shout at me
One of our national coaches has a very German training background, and in the lessons I had with her I mostly heard “mooooooooooooooooore bending” and “up up!” (in reference to neck/head position).

[Bogey2]

this deserves a thread of its own…or find the old one and add on

[blue_heron]

I was about to point out the caption on that post, too. What a crock of bullsh!t.

[Davignport]

He was really never held responsible for the damage he did to William PFF. That poor horse.

[blue_heron]

Unfortunately is really is an issue of no one in the sport really having any money. People think Olympic trainers and the like are multi-millionaires. Meanwhile there’s another thread on the dressage forum about Laura Graves giving back a horse to its owner because it’s not an Olympic contender. Personally I think this is good horsemanship and good owner-trainer business practices, but it also highlights that many many many trainers don’t own these horses.

If everyone really doesn’t want Isabelle teaching with the Helgstrand logo prominently placed in the background, someone needs to step up and provide an alternative venue and alternative sponsors. (It won’t be me, despite how much I’d love to, and I’m sure that this clinic was planned a year in advance at least and would be very difficult to move last minute).

[Mersidoats]

I think it was the whistleblower pointing out the incredible disconnect between what Parra says and what he does.

[blue_heron]

Yeah, I think most people agree Parra himself did not make that post and the caption was ironic.

[Knights_Mom]

@blue_heron

If everyone really doesn’t want Isabelle teaching with the Helgstrand logo prominently placed in the background, someone needs to step up and provide an alternative venue and alternative sponsors.

No we don’t. People need to stop putting the responsibility to stop this crap on those of us unhappy with these people and what they do to horses.

We are just calling out the truth. Its up to the governing body to fix it. Or the general public may decide to fix it by eliminating it. I’m fine with that too.

[blue_heron]

Sorry, I agree with the thought behind your posts and have been following your thought process in this thread, but this is a ridiculous sentiment. This is not how the governing bodies of equestrian sports are set up. Or any sport I can think of for that matter.

No governing body that I can think of in any sport privately owns the venues participants compete or practice in. The NFL does not own football stadiums and FIFA doesn’t own soccer fields. These venues are owned by corporate groups who have agreements with the governing body and shareholders in each of the teams. WEC was built and owned by the Roberts family. KHP is owned by the state of Kentucky but is supported by numerous corporate partnerships and some private donors, and even that is a special case. I’ll admit I am slightly more ignorant of how these things work outside of the US and Canada.

Helgstrand owns the Wellington equestrian center via the Global Equestrian Group. USEF/USDF might be able to disqualify Helgstrand from participating in competition or events, but if we want another venue, someone will have to step up and provide it. That is not the role of the governing body.

[MadTrotter]

You’re conflating several issues here. Most large sport venues in the US are as you say, publicly owned and along with that comes a level of scrutiny about how things are funded and run. This is obviously not happening here and Helgstrand obviously feels insulated in his fiefdom.

Unfortunately, getting DeSantis or more local governance to fund a fancy equestrian center is obviously a nonstarter.

I don’t think anyone is arguing sports orgs are supposed to fund and sponsor event venues. What they ARE supposed to do is publish, and ENFORCE, rules and procedures to ensure as fair of competition as possible. And when animals are involved, that obviously includes welfare issues like abuse and drugging.

Hegelstrand and his entire training apparatus should’ve faced MUCH harsher sanctions. If he wanted to pull his venues and tank his sport, then we would and should have to deal with it.