So Im reading the Christopher reeves bio for school

[gothedistance]

Now this is interesting. I just found an excerpt from his biography, and here is what he was told afterwards as he had STM loss of exactly how events played out.

"I left the starting box at exactly 3:01. The times are always that precise; another rider goes every two minutes. We made a nice strong start. Witnesses said that Buck was absolutely willing and ready. First jump, no problem. The second jump was a medium-size log pile. No problem. Then we came to the zigzag. The fence judge’s report says I was going fast, not excessively fast but moving right along.Apparently Buck started to jump the fence, but all of a sudden he just put on the brakes. No warning, no hesitation, no sense of anything wrong. The judge reported that there was nothing to suggest Buck was worried about the fence. He just stopped. It was what riders call a dirty stop; it occurs without warning. Someone said that a rabbit ran out and spooked Buck. Someone said it could have been shadows. …"

And here’s where my eyewitness to the first two fences is so radically different from the “witnesses” he mentions. The horse wasn’t willing at the 2nd fence. He was anything BUT willing. Yes, he jumped it, but awkwardly, and not forward, sucking back, ears flat on his head strides before the fence, and clearly not happy. I was standing about 30 yards away with an unobstructed view of their profile, and the entire picture struck me in a very impressionable way. That horse’s attitude at that second fence was a huge “in your face” warning that the rider had to have felt in the hesitating backward approach, and had to have seen in the horse’s expression (ears). Sadly, Reeve never remembered, and had to rely upon others who certainly weren’t telling him the truth, or were too star-struck in watching him rather than the horse to really be objective about all the pieces.

Now, with almost 20 years gone past, and a whole decade within devoted to a deeper understanding and appreciation of the sport horse in the extreme sport of endurance, I couldn’t help but zero in on his comment about being worried about the horse’s sore back (which he mentions earlier in his narration) which, in turn, makes me think that the sore back may well have been the catalyst for the horse’s attitude towards the fences. If the horse was hurting, and Reeve clearly knew it and said so, it may be the reason for the vastly different opinions regarding the horse’s personality being expressed here by people who actually knew the horse.

[lrp1106]

Maybe to try to turn this in a better direction, a very relevant thread of conversation with regards to this issue is how his dear friend Robin Williams supported him in his time of need. He showed up to his hospital room dressed as his character from Nine Months.

Maybe we should all try to channel Robin Williams as he supported his friend and put this thing to rest. We should all try to ride as safely as possible. We should all be supportive of each other. And we should be there for friends when they need it. Done.

[Trixie]

Having been a previous resident of Eventland I know who Fox-Pitt is and have seen him ride in person. He’s a professional rider who does not put his body in bad places while jumping. I’ve also cliniced with Boyd Martin, who is 6’+ as well, and he also keeps himself over the horse very well. If you must ride smaller horses at that height (and they do, as that’s their job) you really, really must be cognizant of what your upper body is doing. A rider of that height on a too-small horse is no one’s ideal situation.

Of course, neither of the above tall people ever had to learn to ride or perhaps made mistakes.

[PhoenixFarm]

[QUOTE=lrp1106;7734992]
Maybe to try to turn this in a better direction, a very relevant thread of conversation with regards to this issue is how his dear friend Robin Williams supported him in his time of need. He showed up to his hospital room dressed as his character from Nine Months.

Maybe we should all try to channel Robin Williams as he supported his friend and put this thing to rest. We should all try to ride as safely as possible. We should all be supportive of each other. And we should be there for friends when they need it. Done.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. The serial spewing on this topic makes me pretty angry, honestly, and I needed this reminder. You are correct, of course.

[Janet]

Just to clarify a couple of things.

The fence was a “zigzag” with a well defined groundline.

The CDCTA horse trial is still held (and just passed 25 years), just not at Commonweath Park any more. It was at Great Meadow in The Plains for several years, and is now in a differnent part of Culpeper (on Rt 15), on a property called Locust Grove.

It MAY be that his confidence exceeded his competence. But Training level is FULL of people whose confidence exceeds their competence. Most of them get to keep at it until their competence catches up. We can dissect the situation and try to place blame, but the bottom line is that it was pure unadulterated BAD LUCK that turned a simple stop into a tragic accident.

[Fergs]

[QUOTE=oceanmountain;7733624]
It is called trainer wanting $$ and putting a green rider in above his head.[/QUOTE]

It’s called you have no clue what you’re talking about.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=wendyfisher;7734865]
I’ve never read his autbiography. Can someone please explain how he got his hands all tangled? Peteypie, if you find correcting grammar so fascinating, maybe you should be on a grammar forum. There are many grammatical errors on this forum. It’s not just the OP. Are you going to correct everyone else as well?[/QUOTE]

In post #3, Ibex commented that Christopher Reeve’s “hands came up and got tangled in the bridle.” There is more general information about him on his site, but not much to address your question in more depth except that he came forward over the horse’s head. I have not read his biography either, but I feel a tremendous amount of respect and sadness when I think about him. Here is the link to his online biography:
http://www.chrisreevehomepage.com/biography.html

On a much lighter note, wendyfisher, welcome to CoTH and thank you for commenting on my post. I see that we have a common ability to waylay a thread. Even the best among us can accidentally veer into the off topic ditch, but the trick is to just get back on course as best as you can and try not to get too interested in a side topic. That said, sometimes a subject, a comment, an aside is so interesting that it is impossible to ignore – how could we not discuss spelling and then swerve into the even more riveting sphere of language improvement!

Wendy, how exciting to find in you a fellow grammar enthusiast who can recognize the many errors committed on this forum! I’m a little embarrassed to admit that I myself occasionally err both in grammar and in spelling in spite of that nice little line of red dots which appears under a misspelled or unknown word (that spellcheck program is so clever!!). Just like you, I simply fail to notice it sometimes; I don’t know why.

I was initially giddy at your great suggestion that I find a grammar forum. I say initially, because after reflecting upon it, I sadly realized that a grammar forum would probably be populated by the cognoscenti of the English language, and where would that leave me? I am a mere layman among the truly learned and it would be beyond intimidating to challenge anyone of their ilk. And anyway, there would probably be few if any errors among such a crowd! Better that I remain on CoTH, in rich waters.

In response to your hopeful question about whether I am going to correct everyone else on this forum, I will say first that I am truly flattered by your estimation of my abilities and impressed by your amibition. I wish I had the time and knowledge for such an undertaking. It is sweet of you to think I am that capable, but trust me, after you have more than 19 posts on CoTH you will recognize that I am just not the person with those abilities. Maybe together, we can begin to make a dent. I am so happy you joined this forum!

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=oceanmountain;7733624]
It is called trainer wanting $$ and putting a green rider in above his head.[/QUOTE]

It’s called “what a stupid comment”. You clearly have no knowledge of this incident. Best keep your cake hole shut.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=McGurk;7734852]
I believe he shattered C4 and C5. (4th and 5th cervical vertebrae.)[/QUOTE]
No, it was C3. Back in the 70’s, when I took Human Anatomy in college, I was told a break at C3 (and above) is a fatal injury as the nerves that innervate the diaphragm are at C3. The diaphragm controls breathing in mammals. This is why they could never get CR off the ventilator completely.

Obviously, some advances have been made since the 70’s since they were able to keep CR alive for many years. However, while I greatly admire his courage and tenacity in the face of such an overwhelming and irrevocable injury, I would not have wanted to be kept alive under those circumstances.

[The_Crone_of_Cottonmouth_Count]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7734625]
We have ALL jumped ahead and we have ALL had our horse stop because of it. .[/QUOTE]

Ain’t it the truth. It is the manner by which I became separated from an ACL I’d become quite attached to over the years.

[McGurk]

gothedistance,

I jumped the fence in question many times, including the event before Chris Reeve’s accident and the one after (the HT ran in both fall and spring), plus multiple times schooling (you could pay a small fee to school that course pretty much at any time). At those times there was not a ground line. The whole point of a zig zag fence, in the thinking of that time, was that it was airy and difficult to “read”, hence the advice of a lot of clinicians to aim for the upright portion at the point, as that made it easier for the horse to judge takeoff.

Did that contribute to Chris Reeve’s fall? Probably not. It was a simple, inviting fence, not near the maximum height, included in the Novice course as well, and as someone else mentioned, jumped hundreds of time in competition without causing a fall.

I am baffled by the posters asking about how his hands got tangled in the reins. If you’ve ridden over fences, or seen someone come off over the horse’s head after a refusal, it’s pretty clear how that works. I think this odd, irrelevant question is feeding the suspicion that there are trolls among us.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=McGurk;7735308]

I am baffled by the posters asking about how his hands got tangled in the reins. If you’ve ridden over fences, or seen someone come off over the horse’s head after a refusal, it’s pretty clear how that works. I think this odd, irrelevant question is feeding the suspicion that there are trolls among us.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s people that have never seen anything like that happen and can’t imagine that it could…and does often. Also again,those who think there is something they can do to prevent something like this from happening to them.

[vxf111]

I will say this about recollection and eyewitness accounts-- they are far more faulty than we think or want to believe. 10 people can watch an accident standing togther and give 10 wildly different accounts-- each account truly believed by the giver as what he/she saw happen.

I’m not sure how much stock I put in CR’s recollection of what happened or any other eye witnesses’ recollection. The video shows what it shows. We come to it with our own biases and unavoidably colored by what we KNOW happened.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Trixie;7734993]
Of course, neither of the above tall people ever had to learn to ride or perhaps made mistakes.[/QUOTE]

or falls off. Boyd falls of ALL the time–still a great rider though. He is also built very differently. WFP is a better analogy. And regardless…it really doesn’t matter. I also don’t put too much stock in eyewitness accounts. Some horses gallop and jump with pinned ears…makes them aerodynamic Really it doesn’t matter. It wasn’t a fault of fence design…wasn’t an unfair question for the level…from people who I respect, he was more than competent for the level and working with good people. He had a VERY unlucky fall. It was very tragic. He was a very strong person and personality to live on as long as he did…and we can all learn a lot for him. I would not focus on his accident…as the accident had very little to define who he was as a man.

[Jealoushe]

Was it either of these horses?

http://www.chrisreevehomepage.com/images/portraits/i-crhorse.gif

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/gallery/2004-10-11-reeve/reeve-equestrian-ap.jpg

http://www.mixanitouxronou.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/reeve.jpg

Such a sad sad tale, and helps to remind us to continue to teach young riders how to properly fall.

[MintHillFarm]

I had the honor of meeting him a few times. Such a nice person, friendly, approachable etc…I first met him when he came to try a horse at our barn. I saw him again at the farm where he rode where he greeted me so nicely as if he knew me. Lastly at Old Salem Farm where he was showing in the low jumpers…
He was very tall, and his upper body was very long. It wouldn’t take much, if he did jump or lean ahead, to fall. An error which we have all done in years of riding. I am so sad for his family, his late wife and all his friends. It was a tragic accident…

[MintHillFarm]

I knew his trainer. I don’t feel as you suggested, Oceanmountain, that it was a a money issue…

[Against_All_Odds1]

@Jealoushe;7735678

http://www.mixanitouxronou.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/reeve.jpg

I must say, I am not a attracted to most english riding men but boy does he ever look handsome in this photo

[findeight]

You know, you cannot always teach riders how to fall “correctly”, especially from an unexpected stop out of a good gallop. It’s no guarantee of protection from injury and there is no way to fall " correctly" if you do get suddenly stopped off head first.

Personally seen GP riders in that situation grab at the neck and get the crownpiece taking the bridle with them as they summersault off. Not that rare.

By all means teach the tuck and roll but don’t promise it will keep them from ever getting hurt. 45 years riding and only one serious injury for me, I had one spin, bolt and buck me off over THE BACK of them, getting caught by a back hoof on the way down. Cracked a shoulder, no way to defend against that kind of thing but it happens that way sometimes.

[wendyfisher]

I’ve actually seen some grand prix riders fall of and take the bridle with them. I’v never seen them actually get their hands tangled.

[QUOTE=findeight;7735759]
You know, you cannot always teach riders how to fall “correctly”, especially from an unexpected stop out of a good gallop. It’s no guarantee of protection from injury and there is no way to fall " correctly" if you do get suddenly stopped off head first.

Personally seen GP riders in that situation grab at the neck and get the crownpiece taking the bridle with them as they summersault off. Not that rare.

By all means teach the tuck and roll but don’t promise it will keep them from ever getting hurt. 45 years riding and only one serious injury for me, I had one spin, bolt and buck me off over THE BACK of them, getting caught by a back hoof on the way down. Cracked a shoulder, no way to defend against that kind of thing but it happens that way sometimes.[/QUOTE]