Oh my oh my…I can’t believe what I missed not checking with these boards for 2 days. 
I’m SO INCREDIBLY SORRY M_J! I’ve never lost a horse, but I can sympahtize with some of your pain. It must be so hard for you. Just remind yourself that there WILL be other horses, and they’re all special in their own way. Seger was your baby…but there will be others. 
(and you still have your pony!!!)
“Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow.”
I don’t believe that she would deliberately do something like that to her horse. She is not that kind of person. It’s not the fact that I don’t believe he was malnourished, but M_J would not intentionally kill her horse, not even for lack of money. She’s a kid, her parents know next to nothing about horses, she has had no formal training, no trainer, and she’s already said she doesn’t have much money - not to mention she was paying for this horse herself! She was more than likely too embarassed to ask for help for fear of thinking that people WOULD think she was starving her horse or something along those lines. I do agree that she needs help, to an extent, but I honestly think it’s her parents who need to be informed. A 16 year old child can NOT handle the care of a horse all by themselves. As a teenager, once you get attached to something (especially a horse, when you feel like you have no one else to talk to) it’s hard to let go. She was probably trying her hardest, and didn’t want to admit that anything was wrong. If touche was so sure that something was wrong with Seger, she could have helped her from the beginning. I thought that was what friends were for, and i’m sure M_J would have done anything possibly to pay her back. THAT’S the kind of kid she is. Don’t dump all the blame on M_J, that is the LAST thing she needs right now…
The last thing I’d want as a result of this tragedy is for the two of you to become cynical skeptics. It’s your respective ability to approach others with kindness and compassion which makes this board such a delight.
It’s understandable that the two of you would feel betrayed and disappointed but don’t let this undermine who and how you are.
This thread upsets me more than I can begin to express, and for many reasons.
When all is said and done I still see no answer to my main question: “Why is this horse dead?” I’m not sure he had to die, but I’m not willing to second-guess anything on the available info. I don’t expect most of us will ever know the answer.
Seger wasn’t the first horse to die of starvation (if that was indeed the case), nor will he be the last. And the one thing they all have in common is that no one speaks up for them until it is too late.
I am sorry to hear of the loss of Seger.
It is my experience with cast horses that the more time they are down in one position the more damage can be done. My mare was cast for almost an hour around 3 years ago and well, it was touch and go for a day or so due to the fact that they can colic so easily due to pressures put on the digestive system and their circulatory system while they are down. It all depends on the position they are stuck in.
My mare was basically stuck on her back up against the back of her stall. This occurred during the middle of the day and I was even working in the barn at the time, however, I was out in the field with the other barn staff tarping hay during a rain storm. None of the boarders knew how to get the mare unstuck and they called their trainer who lived around 20 minutes from the barn. They got her unstuck and my mare leaped to her feet and the trainer knew that my mare should be walked but none of her students volunteered to walk her but one of my trainers students did volunteer to walk her and kept her walking until I got back to the barn. They told me what had happened and I kept my mare walking for another 2 hours and than kept observing her for another 8 hours after that. I had never been so scared in my life.
We will never know the whole truth behind this situation, which is why I view it as a witch hunt. If MJ is truly at fault, than the people with FIRSTHAND knowledge (Touche and the vet) should contact the ASPCA directly.
Nothing at all is gained by rehashing this topic on this BB. The best that we can hope for is that MJ gets counseling.
I question those who would defend the abuser…too close to blaming the victim.
All of us in the horse world have at one time or another come in contact with animal abusers of one degree or another. In my experience, the most severe abusers have one thing in common:
they were abused as children
And when you confront them, it’s the first thing they themselves will tell you. And so will their defenders. Boo hoo. Their parents beat them as a child.
SO WHAT?!?!?!
Sorry. Son of Sam was abused as a child. So was Jeffrey Dalmer. So was the Boston Strangler. Probably Osama Bin Laden too. That’s what he’ll say when they catch him “I was abused as a child”
Boo hoo.
Sorry guys. It’s not a defense in my books. The abused cannot “rightfully” become the abuser. And he or she can have no defense.
To get biblical, there is a passage that says “Call no man Father”. In other words, you cannot blame your parents for your actions. And the death of Seger was the DIRECT action of M-J, no other. No excuses.
And no forgiveness without true repentance.
we’ll never let it die…
we want off topic week, we want off topic week!!! (Actually, I am trying to get 50,000 views on this thread - 20,000 just isn’t good enough!)
BTW, how is poor Mr. Gus feeling? did you find something to feed him?
Behind every good woman lies a trail of men
What a shame! Hang in there… 
I began writing this in response to a newer thread that CLOSED before I could finish typing… so, to those who say they know, do you know for a fact that there was anyone else “there” aside from MusicalJumper and the veterinarian? If so, perhaps you could tell everyone “the real story”? I can’t be the only one who’d like to know, if only for peace of mind!
Personally, I am a newcomer to the MJ thread(s), so I am not as fully aware of the situation as others. All I can see is the tragedy of an ailing horse, being cared for by a well-meaning but unprepared owner who, whether she will admit it or not, direly needs attention. And, in the future, HANDS-ON help… which does not have to cost $$$, FYI! My family kept my first horse at home and did so on a shoestring, but we knew we could contact at least one of my 4-H advisors at any hour in an emergency. Yes, we’d wait forever for an equine practitioner, but our “cow vet” was great and could track down a specialist if it was needed.
MJ, I hope you don’t think I am being overly critical. What happened to Seger is tragic and I hope that you will learn from the experience instead of playing the defensive card. I had to put my first horse down too, not long after he contracted cancer–chemo wasn’t an option and an operation would have been far too risky and expensive (multiple opinions were given). I still regret that I hyperventilated and my non-horsey dad had to hold the leadrope for me. I’m almost certain my baby went out happy. I hope Seger finally did, too.
[This message was edited by InWhyCee on Oct. 23, 2001 at 02:42 PM.]
I’m not sure why some people are having a hard time believing that MJ hasn’t told the truth. All of her posts are full of contradictions and excuses. She claims to be in an area where there are no vets or horses, yet she belonged to a pony club (must have been one small pony club). Any horse in the condition she described should have been seen by any large animal vet available, not just the equine specialist. Where there are cattle, there are vets. She claimed not to have any money, yet she had things she could have sold (computer, cell phone, etc.) and at the same time as she was pleading poverty re: Seger’s blanket, she was looking for used breeches on the dressage board and buying tickets to a Kenny Chesney concert. Clearly there were people she could have turned to for help, Touche being one of them. When people here offered her blankets, she never took anyone up on it. If you have followed even half of what’s gone on, you should have noticed the glaring contradictions.
Well almost a week after the fact I’m calm enough, and feel I have a sufficient number “facts” to reply. It’s amazing how the feeling you get - that sharp punch in the stomach and dull ache in the chest - when you see an abused animal never goes aways or even lessens with frequency. Poor Cherry Upper’s case is no exception.
Abuse or no abuse, there is no excuse ever to neglect any living thing. That’s the great thing about humanity - we control our own destiny. Unfortunately Cherry Upper’s was thoughtlessly thrown away. I have to agree with whoever mentioned being told “you can’t save them all”, but the thought that you should has never left the back of my mind. “If only”'s have a nasty way of replaying a thousand times. Maybe that’s just my lingering naievety from only having 17 years of life experience to draw upon.
As I look at the college essay I’m supposed to be writing the quote seems fitting : Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it - George Santayana. So to all the other juniors who may be feeling a bit disenchanted take heart. The best legacy we can give Cherry Upper is to learn from this, remember this, remember Cherry Upper, and never be silent ever.
Jess
ps Kelly I’m glad to hear you two are ok was your apartment damaged at all? hope your week gets better! if you need anything just call
I’ve followed your story from a distance, please accept my condolences.
As for the story being real or made up…
I’d rather be wrong and kind, than right and mean.
To each his own.
(the above was in response to a post that has since been removed.)
The more I hear, the more I know that my “gut feeling”/“sixth sense” was right about this situation.
Why haven’t we gotten the full story yet?
MJ decided to share this situation with the members on this board and all of us were worried about Seger.
A simple explanation would put to rest these so-called “nasty comments”? I feel like things are definitely being covered up.
I have been very upset over this situation and feel as if the entire board has been misled.
“Truth is a greater virtue than love”
Touche, may I first commend you for coming forward with your very honest post of the facts as you saw them. We have needed that enlightenment.
Now to the rest of you that have chosen to chastise Touche. All we heard about yesterday was, “How can we be so judgemental? No one was there to see exactly what happened. The condition of the horse.”
Well here is someone who I have to give credibility to. She was there, had previous knowledge of the horse, the child, the vet.
FOR GOD SAKE PEOPLE WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT???
Sorry for the scream but you’re drivin’ me nuts.
It really isn’t my call to judge this child, but I will repeat, the day you take possession of any animal, you have taken responsibility for their every need. Some people do a better job than others.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
Touche’ mentioned seeing him when he was moved to M_J’s home, which had lush pasture at the time (we do not know how big or what type of grass but that is rather a non issue) but she related it to a specific time, when M_J had the picture of her in a dress taken for her website.
That picture, viewed by many of us, shows an already thin young horse. I didn’t think about that when I first saw the photo, until now, as a reference as to when the poor horse was totally in the care of only M_J. She received the horse at the end of last year. It has been 10 months or so that Cherry Uppers has been her responsiblity.
Imagine how quickly that horse would deteriorate from that photo in August given once per day (if that) feedings which M_J has already told us contained no grain. I have no idea if the pasture held up, whether or not the precipitation in the area was average for the area. What I do know is that my own young thoroughbreds would not maintain their proper weight/growth without additional nutrition provided beyond the grass in the field. None of us can do more than speculate if the horse was wormed (my own in the same time frame were wormed 4 times with Quest, Ivermectin, Safe-Guard and Quest)
As a suppostion as to how the horse could deteriorate so quickly, lack of basic maintenance care for months, combined with let down from the rigors of the track (along with change from the high calorie diet and routine exercise) perhaps throw in ulcers, would support how bad he got but none of these should have been the end of his life. It took a combination that only complete lack of attention to his condition to bring this sad tragedy about.
Our old facility had a good sized pasture and I had no need to provide hay during the summer months for my TB’s but still had to feed a large quantity of grain twice per day. The barn we now occupy has no viable pasture and I feed my two growing Tb’s and one pony a bale and a half per day of an orchard grass/clover/alfalfa hay mix (70lbs per bale) along with grain twice per day.
My horses are NOT fat. Showing my Maddie on the line this summer was a balancing act between what I was willing to do to have her competitive compared with OVERFEEDING a growing young horse.
I know from my own experience, which I repeatedly mentioned when M_J posted her worry over her horses lack of weight, just what it takes to keep a young TB fit.
She did not provide basic care.
[This message was edited by Everythingbutwings on Oct. 24, 2001 at 10:02 PM.]
winglet >>> thanks !
Musical_Jumper
“Event riders leave no ring unrode, no jump over turned, and no ditch filled in.”
“Your competition just got better today, did you…”
http://accopmanyme.tripod.com/tiffanyswebwonderland/ ~~ Come check out my site!!
Unfortunately, we all have a bit of a “henchman” in us. At least, I do.
I personally do not care to know any more details. Suffice it to say, I am on to other subjects of far more interest.
No offense was intended to anyone. And I am not suggesting that there is anything one could concretely do to prevent someone from misusing the BB.
And Natty, I’m 45, and you’ve admitted to being 34. Yes, we would probably know when we’re in over our heads.
yes, she IS a mother… MY mother… and believe me, she knows VERY well what it’s like to live with a teenager, ESPECIALLY a troubled and depressed one. Please don’t question her parenting knowledge, as you have no idea what it’s like to BE a parent. You only know what is seen (by MOST teenagers, not just you) as “the dictatorship of Mom and Dad” the ones who don’t understand you and never could. Your parents weren’t always the way they seem to be, they got that way from cleaning YOUR diapers, Paying YOUR bills and watching you grow ever less “tolerant” of them for it. But I bet they STILL wouldn’t trade you for anything in the world.
JoHn (WiNgLeT)
“No one teaches riding better than a horse.”
-Lewis Carroll
Look at my ultra cool site!
www.geocities.com/winglet18
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