[QUOTE=aktill;6801145]
So again I say, if you need a spur stop to show effectively, you’re not ready to show. A lack of preparation never stopped anyone, but to each their own.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I would call it over preparation myself.
[QUOTE=aktill;6801145]
I can’t even WATCH WP for 2 mins without my fiance needing to drag me away from the rail before I make an unfortunate comment. It’s anti-horsemanship - a discipline that not only encourages, but requires movement that is damaging to the long-term health of the horse.
To ride one would be to condone what is done in that ring, so thanks, but pass.
I have had the pleasure of riding (and making) ranch horses that don’t need you to spur them to stop (?!?) or clamp your legs around the horse to stop the swing of its barrel.
I didn’t say that ALL WP riders ride like that, but I’m directing this at those that feel the need to install a spur stop. Why install a button that ensures the horse will be useless for anything other than WP? So again I say, if you need a spur stop to show effectively, you’re not ready to show. A lack of preparation never stopped anyone, but to each their own.[/QUOTE]
There is plenty I don’t like that others do with their horses, but I respect they can do what they want, if I like it or not.
I would guess there is something you do with your horses that others may object to also, but are too polite to mention it.:yes:
Around here I have seen it mentioned, good advice I think, when you find yourself in a hole, it is smart to quit digging.
My QH is spur broke (showed on the QH and Palomino circuits) and honestly it’s confusing to me. I normally wear spurs or a crop because he is so lazy but there are days where I don’t wear spurs. I’ve been working with him since July without spurs and we’re getting there.
[QUOTE=sparkette;6801515]
My QH is spur broke (showed on the QH and Palomino circuits) and honestly it’s confusing to me. I normally wear spurs or a crop because he is so lazy but there are days where I don’t wear spurs. I’ve been working with him since July without spurs and we’re getting there.[/QUOTE]
Right.
I think we can teach a horse to respond to whatever cues we want to use.
If the horse has cues we don’t want, we can have them fade by not using them and using others in their place.
That is assuming that we have a horse with the ability and talent and training for what we want to start with.
I say, it is up to us the riders to be consistent and clear and so our horses, nice as they are to oblige, can do what we ask of them without confusion.
I was talking to a trainer that had a wp horse he bought from someone that wanted to make an arena roping horse out of him and gave up.
Mind you, maybe you can do so with some, but why get a horse bred to be a square peg, trained to be a square peg and ridden like the very nice square peg he is for years and then make everyone miserable, the rider and horse, trying to make that poor horse fit a round hole?
It would be wonderful if everyone would ride the same and ask with the same cues.
That is very much so in Europe and in most English riding.
We can get on a jumper or dressage horse anywhere and very much expect it to ride the same or close enough we can perform well.
I seem to think that, in western riding, there is so much more variety in what all is done in each different discipline that a rider needs to be more versatile to get a reining/cutting/roping/wp pleasure horse to go well for them, because they don’t all use anywhere close to the same aids.
That is not even touching on gaited horses, that are a whole different world in themselves.
I think that good horsemen will understand that and not dismiss what they don’t know about offhand, just because it is different and looks strange or even absurd to them.
You can’t believe how out of this world the three and five gaited horses in Madison Square Garden looked to me the first time I saw them and then watched them motoring along.
I was there with the jumpers, had never seen anything like that.
Those “horses?” seemed clear out of some fantasy world, incredible that anyone anywhere would have horses that looked like that and moved like that.
I thought I knew what those were from reading about them and seeing pictures.
The reality was vastly different once seeing them in person.
Wp horses don’t hold a candle to them, when it comes to extremes of what we can do with horses that is out of the norm.
As long as no one is using abusive methods to train and ride ANY horse in ANY way out there, well, "different strokes … " and all that.
For those that point to abuses in wp training, abuses do happen in ALL we do and not just with horses, sadly.
Abuses are illegal and unacceptable in anything we do.
BUT, just because someone trains and rides their horses in a different to vastly different manner than we do, that doesn’t mean it is basically and generally objectionable in itself.
There enters the live and let live, a respect for what others choose to do and hoping they will then respect what we do.
There enters the live and let live, a respect for what others choose to do and hoping they will then respect what we do.
Words to live by . Remembering them will probably lessen the moments when unfortunate comments pop out of one’s mouth.
[QUOTE=Bluey;6801175]
There is plenty I don’t like that others do with their horses, but I respect they can do what they want, if I like it or not.
I would guess there is something you do with your horses that others may object to also, but are too polite to mention it.:yes:
Around here I have seen it mentioned, good advice I think, when you find yourself in a hole, it is smart to quit digging.;)[/QUOTE]
Lol, if these are the sort of rationalisations that let you sleep at night, go for it. If my comments have tweaked something, maybe go look up Ray Hunt’s oft quoted poem about the man in the glass. Anyone can say anything they want about my horses, but they’ll never make me lose sleep about what I’m doing with them.
When the realities of the world of biomechanics and horsemanship clash with the demands of the showpen and the desires of people wanting to compete there, lots of people prefer to not be reminded of those things
I have not read the thread, but I think “The Spur Stop” is the perfect name for a horse English type pub. 
I may be a bit late to the party…
I had a brief foray into Western during college when my equestrian team needed to fill in their roster a bit. IHSA Western runs as horsemanship rail classes, with reining patterns for higher level riders as well. For those of you unfamiliar with IHSA, the host school provides the horses (usually a mix of lesson and boarder horses), and you draw your horse at random. You get a short (<2 sentences) description of how the horse goes, then you get on and ride in the class.
Out of ~20 horses, over half would respond to the “holding leg = slow down” and maybe 5 would have a strong “spur = HALT” response. I should also note that of those 20 horses, most were not super fancy show horses, and those 10 that didn’t have any spur stop were probably beginner lesson horses, reiners, gamers, or slow hunters in Western tack for the day.
FTR, for the WP horses I was taught a steady squeezing leg meant slow down, spur meant STOP NOW and a “bump” with your lower leg/heel was speed up. All accompanied with seat cues as well.
I’ll be the first to say I’m an awful Western rider :lol: but man, I learned A LOT. It was really, really good for my overall riding to learn to ride with NO hand and see just how far you can get with seat and leg aids. I did have consistent problems because I couldn’t get over my English seat, which was like a cattle prod to the WP horses :lol:
[QUOTE=kateh;6803345]
I had a brief foray into Western during college when my equestrian team needed to fill in their roster a bit. IHSA Western runs as horsemanship rail classes, with reining patterns for higher level riders as well. For those of you unfamiliar with IHSA, the host school provides the horses (usually a mix of lesson and boarder horses), and you draw your horse at random. You get a short (<2 sentences) description of how the horse goes, then you get on and ride in the class.
Out of ~20 horses, over half would respond to the “holding leg = slow down” and maybe 5 would have a strong “spur = HALT” response. I should also note that of those 20 horses, most were not super fancy show horses, and those 10 that didn’t have any spur stop were probably beginner lesson horses, reiners, gamers, or slow hunters in Western tack for the day.
FTR, for the WP horses I was taught a steady squeezing leg meant slow down, spur meant STOP NOW and a “bump” with your lower leg/heel was speed up. All accompanied with seat cues as well.
I’ll be the first to say I’m an awful Western rider :lol: but man, I learned A LOT. It was really, really good for my overall riding to learn to ride with NO hand and see just how far you can get with seat and leg aids. I did have consistent problems because I couldn’t get over my English seat, which was like a cattle prod to the WP horses :lol:[/QUOTE]
It took me a bit to learn to “ride behind the motion” to go from a fast circle to a slow one in reining, without touching the reins or the horse breaking to a trot for a step or two.
All riding looks so easy done well, us just watching it.
We sit there thinking, so what, I could do that, I do xyz just fine with my horses.
Sure, just go try it, then come back to tell us about it.
By the way, many western riders with other disciplines think reining is absurd and a sham and anyone can do that also, not just with wp.
Not even talking what any self respecting real cattleman thinks of chasing cattle like working cowhorse, team penners/sorters, arena ropers do.:dead:
Watching the olympic equestrian events with some westerners, they were from confusing to appalled at all those jumps and wrecks, especially in cross country.:eek:
I didn’t mention what I have heard some English riders say about rodeo events.:no:
No matter what we do, with some or little reason, there is someone, somewhere that thinks it knows about it without ever having done it and that it is absurd to do that with your horse.
I have a horse that was spur stop trained when I got her. We don’t use it anymore but it’s really cool to do with her, she still remembers how to do it. I know lots of horses that use it and are still really round and lovely, but they tend to kind of have an attitude about life when spur stop trained.
