Perhaps this version of dressage has to die out to make way for a better version. Perhaps the most meaningful action you and I can take is to vote with our dollars.
We’ve already discussed local schooling shows. Let them be the platform perhaps. Perhaps we should enjoy ranch riding on warmbloods. Perhaps AQHA should write their own dressage tests and then the QH people wouldn’t have to lose to warmbloods on the regular.
Perhaps competitive dressage will only change if the institution becomes precariously close to financial extinction. Perhaps it will continue to be a sport for the wealthy long after you and I pass away.
I’m not fussed. It’s a luxury horse sport, not a species of whale.
When I last showed regularly (10 years ago), I budgeted $1000/yr for shows. The rest of my annual horse expenses were $6k/yr. A very different ratio than what you are suggesting.
Together, that was 1/3-1/2 of my take home pay for the year (grad school). It was still a luxury, though I lived a pretty extreme unsustainable lifestyle to support it.
Point is, just be careful extrapolating your own experience to everyone else who is deeply committed to this sport. What is trivial to you is not necessarily trivial to everyone.
Not being fussed over the cost of horse shows, that I can’t afford to attend more than a couple weekends a year, does not mean that I am any less committed to dressage. It just means I’m not committed to chasing trivial ribbons at the expense of the rest of my finances.
Point is, check privilege before complaining about trivial horse show costs.
I’ve used my experiences plus Google to back my POV that horse shows are expensive due to the costs of producing them and that dressage horse shows are not inexplicably more expensive than other types of horse shows.
I’m still waiting for someone to point out what part of dressage showing is so outrageously priced beyond what the costs are.
So I’ve heard $400 membership fees annually. Last I checked, two seconds ago, it looks like USDF and USEF are $170 annually combined. I guess GMO fees and a breed org fee could make up the other $130. Still pretty tiny compared to the costs of horses in general. This is the biggest complaint regarding the cost of dressage?
@SillyHorse please don’t assume anything you don’t really have infos about… I believe that I know more about showing and it’s costs then most of you . Because I showed in Europe as well as in the US and was involved in both organizations as well… So telling me I have no idea coming from somebody who has really no comparison is something similar cannot take serious…
My goodness you are defensive. No one (but you) is saying you have “no idea” about anything. But you are complaining and whining about the cost of showing without offering much in the way of solutions. Going back through this thread, these words from you struck me:
You do? Do you expect a ribbon just for showing up? Is this how it’s done in Europe?
What? Are you saying that even though I train with a recent Pan Am medalist but don’t show I am totally removed from dressage? I would strongly disagree with you.
So now, in spite of complaining about how much dressage costs, you dismiss everyone who does not ride a horse with “desired” gaits. Nice.
Me! and i’m new. I’ve never been to a dressage show, not even as a spectator. Do not know whether i’ll compete or not. If, after witnessing a show in person, i think i can handle it, i will scribe for my coach. Who might be a pro? i dunno what a pro is actually… She trains and rides FEI
I am passionate about horses/horseback riding/establishing an indescribable connection with my mount. I love it so much that i want to share it with others.
so, I have held a training day at my farm, ON my horses for my friends. It ‘took’ on one of them and she is progressing with riding lessons in her city (one state away). She has unlimited access to one of my horses which she has chosen to be her guy here. I’m schooling him about once a week just to keep him brushed up. And i don’t charge her a dime. I encourage her weekly successes via phone/messages after her riding lessons. And she has come back to my farm twice now to meet with my coach and take a private lesson here… I even got her (and my horse) a different saddle because the one I ride him in gave her bruises.
That folks on this thread are dismissive of people without means getting involved in an expensive hobby…well, that’s the one single thing that has kept me away from this discipline. I do not think it’s even the tiniest bit fun to be exclusive. Not in horses/not in life.
I don’t think people are dismissive, but they’re saying that dressage, and most horse-related disciplines, can be expensive if you want to play with the big kids and compete at big shows.
Our GMO puts on a great schooling show series. It’s not expensive to enter and the largest classes, by far, and the Intro classes. We see everything from Shetland ponies to pretty fancy youngsters. Speaking from the scribe’s chair, I know that the judging is fair and sympathetic.
We also put on a recognized show every year. Without sponsors and a ton of volunteers we would lose too much money to continue. As others have stated upthread, we always hope to break even, and if we make a few bucks we are ecstatic.
Not to the people lucky enough to be associated with you.
I can say “yes” to all but the trailer question, because I don’t have a trailer, lol. But I’ve been on both the giving and receiving ends of the other questions, and on the grateful receiving end of the trailer one. It depends a lot, as in many aspects of life, on the people you choose to associate with.
Uhhh I hope I am able to answer your post, you put so many things together…
regarding your first point…
Yes this has been a favorite topic for me because when I came over I was pretty naive and thought showing in the US would be the same as showing in Europe, my fault…
I did offer solutions if you look in older threads, but none of them were accepted as doable by the experts here on the board…
One thing I suggested that it would make sense to check the expenses of USDF and USEF to see if cuts are possible…
Another one would be, because that is really one of my biggest complains to simply store the results of schooling shows… This way accomplishments of riders and their horses are more acknowledged than right now when they simply disappear…
I think this is not popular because then rated shows suddenly have competition… so of course this is not possible…
regarding your second point, yes that is my experience… I never got that many ribbons in my life as I did in the US… If you show rated a ribbon is nearly granted… And I showed in Florida I assume there is some competition…
BTW In Europe most competitors do not get a ribbon … if your class has 28 riders, only 6 get a ribbon… But of course you only pay 11 bucks so a show will not be the high point of the year but only a weekend where you go out and compete (of course this year was different because of Corona… because of Corona our area only had a couple of shows… So it wasn’t even a matter of money but of getting in… They filled up in less then 5 min…)
regarding your third point… Yes, you will be amazed about the difference between a lesson and a test in a show… In the test in a show you have a different surrounding and depending on the test a lot of movements following in short order… Your horse might get distracted and so on… If you never show you might be a good rider but you still might not be successful in shows…
regarding your next point… I was not talking about non-warmbloods but about horses who have conformation flaws… If a horse is not able to use his body well it doesn’t make sense to ride dressage… IMO most of the problems about the gaits are not the horses fault but a rider or training fault so most horses are able to look amazing if they are trained well… But some horses are simply not able to do it and I would not choose them to ride dressage… Hope I was clear now…
Oh and about MEUPATDOES point… Well I guess I can feel good, I did every single thing he mentioned . Didn’t help to change anything though…
? so, i’ll check that out. Don’t see me doing anything but sharing for zero fee…i just want to share my passion and my horses.
i paid the coach, but no one paid me. I exacted nothing in return… well, one of the riders came with N95 masks and handed one out to everyone, so i scored a precious mask…but that’s about it. and LOL I made everyone take at least(!) two butternut squashes with them #cumminoutmyears
It will make a difference financially in those areas where there is not a pool of rated judges to easily draw from for shows.
You have to remember that there are areas of the country that do not have the depth of people doing this sport as other parts of the country. Having to have a rated judge would probably increase the cost of lots of the schooling shows.
Where they would typically hire an experienced local person, they would then have to pay travel, lodging and such to import someone.
That’s because they are basically vague, pie in the sky ideas.
One thing I suggested that it would make sense to check the expenses of USDF and USEF to see if cuts are possible…
Who would you propose do this? How would it be done?
Another one would be, because that is really one of my biggest complains to simply store the results of schooling shows… This way accomplishments of riders and their horses are more acknowledged than right now when they simply disappear…
I think this is not popular because then rated shows suddenly have competition… so of course this is not possible…
Store them where? As mentioned upthread, out GMO has a popular and well-attended.schooling show series, with a championship show, and also a recognized show. No conflict.
regarding your second point, yes that is my experience… I never got that many ribbons in my life as I did in the US… If you show rated a ribbon is nearly granted… And I showed in Florida I assume there is some competition…
BTW In Europe most competitors do not get a ribbon … if your class has 28 riders, only 6 get a ribbon… But of course you only pay 11 bucks so a show will not be the high point of the year but only a weekend where you go out and compete (of course this year was different because of Corona… because of Corona our area only had a couple of shows… So it wasn’t even a matter of money but of getting in… They filled up in less then 5 min…)
Probably because we split classes into divisions (Jr/YR, AA, Open). But I have never heard anyone complain because they didn’t get a ribbon.
regarding your third point… Yes, you will be amazed about the difference between a lesson and a test in a show… In the test in a show you have a different surrounding and depending on the test a lot of movements following in short order… Your horse might get distracted and so on… If you never show you might be a good rider but you still might not be successful in shows…
It’s not necessary to school me re: riding at home vs. showing. However, to state, as you did, that if one doesn’t show one isn’t really doing dressage is preposterous.
regarding your next point… I was not talking about non-warmbloods but about horses who have conformation flaws… If a horse is not able to use his body well it doesn’t make sense to ride dressage… IMO most of the problems about the gaits are not the horses fault but a rider or training fault so most horses are able to look amazing if they are trained well… But some horses are simply not able to do it and I would not choose them to ride dressage… Hope I was clear now…
Again, this has to do with the gulf in your head between riding and showing.
Oh and about MEUPATDOES point… Well I guess I can feel good, I did every single thing he mentioned . Didn’t help to change anything though…
Maybe your area doesn’t have the same kind of people mine does.
Ok, so I had time to do the math for the membership fees the average person that shows at rated shows is going to have:
USEF membership is $80 annually
USEF horse recording is $95 annually (or $300 lifetime)
USDF membership is $90 annually
USDF horse ID is $35, but most will likely do the lifetime reg, which is $115
Both USDF and USEF offer multi-year membership options at a discount. All breed awards declaration is $35. I did not include GMO memberships or breed registry memberships as obviously those are optional and some people don’t do them (and GMO prices may vary). Perhaps the person paying $400 included those.
Much as I would be happy to see reduced membership dues and lower fees at shows, I don’t see what the incentive is for either the GBs or the show producers to do that unless (or until) they are seeing a significant decline in numbers. Just like trainers’ rates, if enough people are paying what you charge, there’s no reason to lower it.
I also find it inconvenient that most venues now require stalls, BUT I understand the why. Having numerous horses standing around unattended is extra liability and requires a larger parking area with suitable footing. It also requires that someone go behind all those trailers at the end of the day and repair holes that are dug, plus clean up the poop and trash inevitably left behind.
I honestly don’t see a feasible way to make dressage (training OR showing) cheaper. And I say that as someone who probably can’t afford to do more than 2 or 3 rated shows a year max - on my backyard grade off-breed pony.
It’s the opposite actually. In Florida (at least at GDF) the entries are very light and there’s a ton more shows compared to showing at home in Region 8.
I get a ribbon (usually a high one) pretty much every time out here as an amateur since classes are pinned separately.
. Because I showed in Europe as well as in the US and was involved in both organizations as well… So telling me I have no idea coming from somebody who has really no comparison is something similar cannot take serious…
)
. Didn’t help to change anything though…