Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

So Whats a Good Offer?

Hunter/Jumper
#21

I think you are much more likely to find something on a PPE that might result in a lower offer being accepted on a lower price range horse. BUT the PPE detailed enough to turn up something the seller was unaware of is probably going to cost more then they reduce the price, might even cost as much as the horse.

Dealing in the upper price ranges, these horses are vetted to death and there’s likely nothing the seller is unaware of. Any issues would already be known and reflected in the sale price.

I think initially coming in with an offer of anything under 90% of the asking price is probably going to get the door slammed in your face as far as countering is concerned. 20% under would be considered a low ball and wasting sellers time.

There are always exceptions and sales between private parties with no agents involved can be quite different…but those seller’s generally have already priced down since no commissions are involved and maybe tougher to negotiate with.

You maybe can negotiate on a house or a car but having them come down 20% is pretty rare, lucky to get 10%.

And whatever you do, don’t ask for an off the property trial and then offer 20% below the asking price.

Its best to look at horses already in your price range, not fall in love with one that’s over but you figure on a discount and get upset when its not offered. And that’s what happens too often.

Last person I knew that bought one priced at 100k got it for 92,500 with a known, disclosed vet issue. That’s because it was owners ex live in girlfriends Hunter and he wanted it out of his Jumper barn and sight. Something only another Pro would know and a good reason to trust one as an agent in these price ranges.

#22

Everything is negotiable and a horse’s value is what it is worth for you.

I agree that 20% is the max I’d lowball someone on a horse but that would also be with “insider info” like findeight referred to or knowing someone lost their job, company went bankrupt etc and a horse needed to be moved quickly.

Sometimes a quick cash offer is worth a discount in price to some sellers especially if they know their trainer or agent and know that it’s a legit deal and the money is readily available.

If the horse is a really nice animal and just went on the market and is an easy ride, I think maybe a 5% below asking price offer is more in the ballpark.

I always try to estimate how long I think it will take a horse to move. If I’m paying $2000 in bills every month on my $100,000 horse (this wouldn’t include showing expenses) and he’s a quirky ride, I may take 20% less for him if I thought it would take 10 months to move him.

I’ve seen it happen so many times that a legit offer comes along and the owner turns it down and the horse ends up getting hurt the next month. It seems like it’s Murphy’s Law.

#23

Sellers, for the most part, expect some negotiation. I think most who aren’t willing to budge will be upfront about the price being firm.

A lot of factors determine what a fair price/offer is. If the horse has only recently been put on the market, it’s price is likely to be higher. If it’s been for sale for a while, the owner often becomes more flexible, especially if they really need out from under the horse for whatever reason. Quirkiness, vet issues, etc. Also come into play. It’s also definitely true that the asking price will often be higher than the seller’s bottom line to make it seem like the buyer is getting a deal… but if the horse has had several price reductions, it’s price may be closer to the bottom line.

I recently sold a mid 5 figure horse (so not priced at 100k) and I felt like most buyers made lowball offers expecting a counter that would meet in the middle. For example, horse is priced 60k, buyer offers 40 expecting to meet at 50.

#24

[QUOTE=Otter;8171719]
This answer is not particularly helpful. The OP was simply asking for a reasonable range of negotiation for horses priced in the $100k range.

At that price range, negotiating is to be expected.

OP, sorry I do not have an answer for you. You never know what a seller’s situation is. Google is your friend. You can learn tremendous amounts of information which will help you position a reasonable offer.[/QUOTE]
And I answered by saying look at the horse first. The OP is asking about horses they haven’t even met yet, owners they have not met yet and is thinking about offering less.

Don’t have your agent ring me and tell me how much in love you are and are sitting in your car looking at my property in tears because you can’t afford it and I didn’t accept your lower offer. If you can’t afford it look at what you can afford. Put a price on it in your head if you can’t get it for that price walk away. But there is no obligation for the seller to come down.

Yes I still own thr property, it is worth even more now.

What irked me is the thinking of offering lower because it is in that price range when the horse and seller are not even known.

#25

If you are interested in a horse for $100,000, but don’t have that much to spend (say your top is $85,000), I do think it is best to be up front about this before you look at the horse. “I think your horse is what I am looking for, but my max budget is $85,000, will you consider this price if the horse seems suitable when I try it?”

If you just want to make sure you get the best price possible, but could afford the full asking, then I think it is ok to go look, and make an offer. I think adjusting that offer if something comes up on the PPE is fair.

I also agree that the less of a PITA you are to deal with, the more the seller is likely to negotiate with you.

#26

[QUOTE=tua37516;8171572]
You also have to figure a six figure horse has either been already vetted by the seller and/or comes with x-rays and a certain level of soundness that the agent feels comfortable asking that kind of price tag.

I won’t say that stuff won’t come up on a PPE, but I doubt there’s going to be a major surprise that will slash the price that the seller wouldn’t be aware of already.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know why anyone would think a 6 figure horse would come with a PPE. A price is set based on horse experience/talent and then the PPE comes after. As a seller I’d never PPE a horse, and would expect negotiations on a horse if something came up on the PPE.

FWIW I had a horse in that range, clean PPE, the buyer tried to neg, I said no and walked away. They didn’t have the funds and I did feel like my time was wasted.

#27

A “good offer” depends on the value of the horse. Sometimes the seller has a horse worth $75,000 listed for a dream price of $100,000. Other times the seller has a horse worth $120,000 listed for $100,000 for a quick move. The first seller may be thrilled to get 80% of asking while the second one may just never reply back.

#28

Weirdly I think some people at the really $$$ level intentionally pad the number because they expect something to come up on the PPE and they know the buyer will want to knock some off. The more $$$ the horse is the more the buyer has the right to expect perfection and demand a concession when it’s not there, or something like that.

I don’t think a seller ought to be offended at a 10-15% off offer and I think a 20% off offer might also work. Much less and you really do run the risk of offending the seller. I don’t think you can expect a 10-20% off offer to be accepted but it should not be so out of whack as to turn the seller off entirely most of the time.

#29

[QUOTE=APirateLooksAtForty;8171903]
Otter, the two comments are completely unrelated. :confused: unless a price is listed as negotiable, I am personally not a fan of “making an offer.” Agree with the poster above who said you should not be sitting on a horse if you can’t afford its price tag. This is coming from someone who has burned in the past as a seller in this way … A jr hunter child tried my horse, asked us to scratch him from a large class so she could ride him again the next day, then made us a lowball offer. Not fair to the horse or to the seller imho.

But I have no idea what these thoughts have to do with my previous post opining that the current trend in pricing U.S. homebreds is inflated.[/QUOTE]

Here you said a $100k is a reasonable offer on a horse priced $100k. By the same logic, $40k would be a reasonable offer on your friend’s horse, yet you said you thought the horse was over-priced. That’s where I was confused. (My remark didn’t have anything to do with the pricing of US bred horses - just your comment about over-pricing.)

#30

Not picking on you because this has come up several times in this thread. In my experience, a horse that is 40k+ the buyer is much more lenient on the PPE than one that is <40k. Maybe it is because they have the money to burn, or maybe it is because a horse that is worth that much is bound to come with some jewelry.

#31

[QUOTE=Nickelodian;8172660]
Not picking on you because this has come up several times in this thread. In my experience, a horse that is 40k+ the buyer is much more lenient on the PPE than one that is <40k. Maybe it is because they have the money to burn, or maybe it is because a horse that is worth that much is bound to come with some jewelry.[/QUOTE]

I think that might also be true. But I’ve heard trainers who have a $$$ horse price it at $100,000 KNOWING it has an issue that will come up on the PPE because they really want to get $80,000 out of it and they know there’s going to be wiggle room post PPE. The buyer may be more lenient… but the seller also builds in a little extra so they can go down if they need to.

I see this a lot less on $ horses. For $ the seller prices the horse at the price she thinks she needs to get and when the PPE comes up with something it’s a little more “take it or leave it, the horse is already inexpensive” OR the seller really has to soul search.

I literally, just a few months ago, was chatting with a trainer who had a high 5 figure horse but priced it $15,000 higher(bumping it just into 6 figures) knowing it was going to come up with bad films behind (but had been showing/going well enough that the films wouldn’t be a total turnoff). But was the quality of horse that should be in a barn where people have 6 figure horses-- it just wasn’t going to have clean films. This was a very very very nice green horse with some miles but a little young for those films.

I JUST saw someone do it, and I’ve seen it enough before to say some people play that way. I’m not sure it’s the wisest way to sell a horse, but being a shrewd business person and trainer aren’t necessarily synonymous.

#32

[QUOTE=vxf111;8172722]
I think that might also be true. But I’ve heard trainers who have a $$$ horse price it at $100,000 KNOWING it has an issue that will come up on the PPE because they really want to get $80,000 out of it and they know there’s going to be wiggle room post PPE. The buyer may be more lenient… but the seller also builds in a little extra so they can go down if they need to.

I see this a lot less on $ horses. For $ the seller prices the horse at the price she thinks she needs to get and when the PPE comes up with something it’s a little more “take it or leave it, the horse is already inexpensive” OR the seller really has to soul search.

I literally, just a few months ago, was chatting with a trainer who had a high 5 figure horse but priced it $15,000 higher(bumping it just into 6 figures) knowing it was going to come up with bad films behind (but had been showing/going well enough that the films wouldn’t be a total turnoff). But was the quality of horse that should be in a barn where people have 6 figure horses-- it just wasn’t going to have clean films. This was a very very very nice green horse with some miles but a little young for those films.

I JUST saw someone do it, and I’ve seen it enough before to say some people play that way. I’m not sure it’s the wisest way to sell a horse, but being a shrewd business person and trainer aren’t necessarily synonymous.[/QUOTE]

1000% agree. But it’s not just this industry. The concept of getting a “deal” or something “on sale” is prevalent everywhere. Jack the price up so you can negotiate down to where you want to be.

My industry is guilty as well, increase the price so you have room to negotiate. Very common tactic.

#33

[QUOTE=Nickelodian;8172734]
1000% agree. But it’s not just this industry. The concept of getting a “deal” or something “on sale” is prevalent everywhere. Jack the price up so you can negotiate down to where you want to be.

My industry is guilty as well, increase the price so you have room to negotiate. Very common tactic.[/QUOTE]

Oh it’s certainly not limited to horse sales. And frankly I am not sure it’s the wisest course of action. But it’s done.

#34

It is impossible to tell from the OP, whether or not I have met the horse or not. I simply asked a general question. Many have answered in an extremely helpful way. I’m not new to the horse world, and I have certainly bought and sold a few horses in the past 25 years, but it has been a while. I’ve never bought in this price range, so I simply wanted a general idea of what a particular horse might actually sell for, versus the asking price. I have an idea now, and to those who answered, I sincerely appreciate it. This is going to be a week of horse shopping for me!

#35

[QUOTE=vxf111;8172722]
I think that might also be true. But I’ve heard trainers who have a $$$ horse price it at $100,000 KNOWING it has an issue that will come up on the PPE because they really want to get $80,000 out of it and they know there’s going to be wiggle room post PPE. The buyer may be more lenient… but the seller also builds in a little extra so they can go down if they need to.

I see this a lot less on $ horses. For $ the seller prices the horse at the price she thinks she needs to get and when the PPE comes up with something it’s a little more “take it or leave it, the horse is already inexpensive” OR the seller really has to soul search.

I literally, just a few months ago, was chatting with a trainer who had a high 5 figure horse but priced it $15,000 higher(bumping it just into 6 figures) knowing it was going to come up with bad films behind (but had been showing/going well enough that the films wouldn’t be a total turnoff). But was the quality of horse that should be in a barn where people have 6 figure horses-- it just wasn’t going to have clean films. This was a very very very nice green horse with some miles but a little young for those films.

I JUST saw someone do it, and I’ve seen it enough before to say some people play that way. I’m not sure it’s the wisest way to sell a horse, but being a shrewd business person and trainer aren’t necessarily synonymous.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. If my trainers know something will show on the PPE they factor that into the price but are very upfront about the issue with buyers from the start so it will not be a negotiating tool later. Of course if something comes up they don’t know about that is a different story. I guess these things can go either way.

#36

Otter, the difference is, I would never “make an offer” on the 40k horse. If she prices is at 40k, my assumption is that is not negotiable so if I don’t believe the value is there I will simply pass. The two are completely unrelated … ???

#37

In other words, as a seller myself, I trust that a fellow seller is putting the price that THEY feel is reasonable on their horse. I am offended when people make me a lowball offer, unless I have stated upfront that I am “asking $150,00” for example or that the price is negotiable.

#38

Happy shopping!

#39

[QUOTE=RockinHorse;8172931]
Interesting. If my trainers know something will show on the PPE they factor that into the price but are very upfront about the issue with buyers from the start so it will not be a negotiating tool later. Of course if something comes up they don’t know about that is a different story. I guess these things can go either way.[/QUOTE]

Think more respected trainer/agents operate this way rather then playing games. I know as a buyer, I HATED price games, price it properly in the first place if you know of issues. Thing with the 100k+ range horses, it’s not that the seller specifically does a PPE before marketing it, it’s the fact they did one when they bought it and the horse has gotten regular vet treatment, including x Rays/ultrasounds, at any hint of trouble so they KNOW exactly what issues will come up on a prospective buyers PPE. So they don’t waste everybody’s time. That’s one reason these people are successful in the buy/sell arena, minimal BS-if they know about it, they’ll price it in and tell you up front.

Interstingly, I was speaking recently with somebody who deals in some elite level horses and riders, as in the seven figure price range. Apparently, they don’t do the same kind of PPE on those. Vets are reticent to get involved with offering an opinion in that price range for one thing. But those horse’s basically get what amounts to full physicals routinely and recent, full vet records and imaging come with the horse and are available to buyers vet(s) for a consult prior to purchase.

I found that surprising but ran into somebody pretty high up in another discipline and asked them. Answer was nope, they don’t either, same reasons, same full vet records and pictures are expected. Different world from us peons I guess.

#40

Maybe some sellers will like that I can write a check on the spot for the entire purchase amount. No trying to borrow money, or somehow put together enough to buy the horse. I’m hoping…

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse