Thanks everyone for the thoughts about Libbey! I gave her a dost of Ivermectin a year ago and haven’t done anything since. So last night I gave her a full tube of Ivermectin and this morning she looked fine. I’m still worried but if she stays fine over the next couple days, I will give her the TApe Care Plus dose in 2 months. I might be convinced to do a double dose of something but I swear I stood in the farm aisle last night for 20 minutes trying to convince myself and I couldn’t. LOL! I promise I’m not hopless, just really scared of chemicals.
:eek: :eek: :eek: Wow. DUH to me. OMG Eq, I’m sure it is possible for laminitic horses to be suffering due to wormloads. I never thought of it that way. I’m glad I dewormed Libbey last night and now I’m going to get her on a regular program. Even if she does get more sore after last night’s deworming, it “may” be due to a worm die-off, and if that’s the case, a regular worming program would prevent that.
Choco - what do you do about worming Tank, because she’s foundered?
Well, Tank has technically never “foundered” meaning, although she’s had repeated attacks of laminitis, there’s been no rotation…whew. Also she’s not PPID/Cushingoid.
Still, despite her metabolic issues, I keep her on just as strict a deworming schedule as my other mare. (I rotate between Ivermectin, Equimax, Quest and QuestPlus.)
Now, interestingly enough, Tank was showing me she had the itchies for the first time ever (the black biting flies have been HORRENDOUS this year), so I went ahead and did the first double dose Equimax a week ago. The only “reactions” I saw were very, very good… 1) the itchies went away but… more importantly to me/her:
[INDENT]2) the one hoof that has been plagued by central sulcus thrush that I could never ever get to go away-the same hoof that had chronic sub-solar abscess–“changed” within 24 hours. One day the sulcus was tight and contracted/constricted. The next it had opened up on its own. So open that I could get both my hoof pick and knife in there to remove the dead tissue. [/INDENT]
Farrier was out on Sunday for a 20-day follow up to the last trim. Was alllll ready to cast those hooves too. Told her what I’d done and the sudden opening of the hoof. She picked up that hoof and just said “Oh Susan. That’s amazing.”
I’m not saying to do this with Libbey…she has “things” going on with her metabolically that would make me just as leary/cautious/wary as you are. Perhaps this is a good excuse to spend some time researching out in Google land for anything that speaks to the PPID horse & deworming negative laminar reactions.
Thank you for this. I’ll be “doing” the ancient rat-tailed horse this evening. I’ve tried most other things with him and he still persists in rubbing his tail out… Nothing else, significant, just his tail. Worth a try, I reckon…
I live in a very dry place that freezes hard in the winter, but this horse moved out here with me 10 years ago from sticky, humid NY State. I wonder if he could have been harboring the little beasts all that time?
The “local” horses I have don’t have any skin issues at all.
Of course, he is the one who is a pain to worm.
BTW. Reading this with lunch was a bad idea… I’m now off to the ladies room to lock myself in, take all my clothes off and rub my back on the stucco walls…
Dang, no way! That’s so cool!
[quote=atr;3477958]BTW. Reading this with lunch was a bad idea… I’m now off to the ladies room to lock myself in, take all my clothes off and rub my back on the stucco walls…
[/quote]
LMAO!! Now why didn’t I think of that earlier!
Well that is one more reason to do two tubes… if he spits some out, it’s ok 
Also, I certainly do think if your horse lived in a different environment for many years he could have brought some special friends with him :lol: I have one here who came from out west and I think at that time not only didn’t have a lot of “friends” but maybe came with less overall resistance to them because of that… by the time he got to me, two years later, he was a big ole’ horse full of worms. So it works both ways 
Can’t wait to hear what happens!
Add me to the list of folks trying this out. I have one mare that has rubbed her tail and mane out and is totally miserable. Vet declared gnat allergies and said I need to put her under a fan at dawn and dusk…
Dosed both mares with double Equimax on Monday and will report back. If this helps my sweet mare, I’ll drive up to Chocomare’s place and give her a great big hug!
Chiming in from Canada.
This winter my horse had funny “nodules” I couldn’t get to go away. We actually had boarded a horse that was diagnosed and treated for NTW. She was born here in Souther Ontario so it is here.
Anyways after telling my vet about this horse and my hunch/suspicion that my geldings nodules were related he double dosed him with Ivermectin just in case.(likely to humor me) Mind you he also had me scrub the heck out of the nodules and put him on anti-biotics in case the were infected hair follicles as he suspected.
Funny enough almost all the nodules went away 48 hours later. I specifically remember telling about the 48 hour period but we had no idea this was comfirmation it was NTW.
The remaining nodules are still here and I have since given up scrubbing, and excepted the antibiotics are not working on the 5% that remain.
I didn’t realize the deworming was to be done twice. We both(vet and I) assumed the Ivermectin would have got all the NTW if that was the issue so assumed the antibiotics had worked but for some reason didn’t clear them all up. He had repeated Rx of antibiotics to get the last few to go away but they never did.
Obviously I have ordered him 4 tubes of Equimax and will be dosing him the minute they arrive. lol
He also has some of the other symptoms, allergies, prone to welts when no one else gets them, sores that wont completely heal, needs his tear ducts flushed at least twice a season… itchy…
Anyways we get a LONG frigid season up hear and this makes the 2nd horse born and raised in the province I personally know who has NTW. If they are here they certainly could be anywhere south of us.
I’ll be waiting! :winkgrin:
10 years of NTW studing
To all of you. I have studied the thread worms for years and have found that they manifest themselves in many ways. Symptoms can vary from horse to horse. Some horses will have what appears to some to look like ring worm and others will have bumps with pus still others will have other symptoms like rain rot or fungus on the legs, the ichies serum in the mane and tail.
Some of you have questioned the double dosing. Keep in mind that some of the parasites are so deep in the tissues as they begin to burrow down. It takes alot of dewormer to get deep in the tissues.
I have seen all sorts of problems in my study that showed a definate corrilation between deworming and the health of the horse.
As for not killing the adult worms maybe not so then the only way to control the beasts is to get to them before they become adults.
Some studies suggest that the adults do no harm. Well they produce the larvae that does. so we have to destroy the young to prevent more adults. Further as far as damage. I have incurred many different problems that were tremendously helped thru deworming. I remember a client that his horse refused to turn in one direction. the trainer tied the horses head back which actually ascerbated the problem. After one month of double dosing with equimax the problem resolved itself.
Some studies also suggest that there is actually a 21 day reproduction period for these criters. I had a clients horse that its tail and hip were raw from rubbing. We discussied their worming program. they did the double dose with significant success but it didnt clear up completely now they are demorming with ivermectin every 2 weeks and have been doing this now for three months. It is finally under control with no more allergy shots.
Keep in mind that if the info is correct about it being a 4-5 momth cycle then in order to fight the criters you have to deworm quite often as they are reproducing constantly and must be killed in the larva stage. For those of you that want to know how to kill off the adults. It is by keeping control of the microfilia as they are what turn into adults and as the adults age they die like any other living creature. Also even thou dewormers are claimed to be detectable in the horses system for 30 days it actually has no value after the first 48 hours. Most of the effectiveness is gone thru the horses body getting rid of it by urinating and deficating. Someone a few days ago told me that studies showed deworners were still in the system 30 days later. I told them so does marajuana but it doesnt mean the person is still high on the stuff.
I have treated horses that improved from fly allergies, rain rot, clubbed feet, training problems, tripping, swelling of the leggs, swelling of the head and more. Hope this helps
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ok, last night was a week since I wormed em both. One with double equimax, the other with double ivermectin. I felt along the nine year olds belly this morning and didn’t feel any of the little scabby bumps that have been there before. I didn’t get down and look though. However last night I looked at her and she has on the lower section of her neck near her shoulder on the left side have a patch of peeling skin that is about the size of my palm. That is new.
As for the 6 year old that got the ivermectin, other then those two bumps that originally showed up on her belly the day after worming I haven’t seen anything different.
Thanks for all the info little D!
Well it’s been a week since the 2nd double dose for my guy, and he seems to be doing much better. No fresh sores, no inflamed looking areas. I and now just waiting for his hair to grow back on all the old spots. He is still a little itchy and has some dandruff like stuff, but that is almost gone.
I am tempted to do it again in two weeks, just to be sure. Maybe just with plain ivermectin. If this does really really clear him up, I want to make sure it stays that way!
After all I’ve been through with him, this seems to good to be true. I’m still hesitant to say “it worked” but can clearly see it has at least helped tremendously. :winkgrin:
If you believe he has neck threadworms, Anthelcide is labeled to knock them out when given at 1.5x the dose. Perhaps you want to go that route in 2 weeks.
[QUOTE=gabz;3481020]
If you believe he has neck threadworms, Anthelcide is labeled to knock them out when given at 1.5x the dose. Perhaps you want to go that route in 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]
I just read that on the other thread, I am definatley going to give it a try. At least the anthelcide is a bit cheaper than equimax… thanks!
This is fascinating…
Little D- What is the life span of an adult?
I am also interested in hearing about the improvement you saw in a club foot. My horses left front is a low grade club.
NTW
I have been writing extensively with one of our members on this subject Im not sure how to do it but maybe I can atleast share what I have already written.
My research indicates that the life span is about 21 days. Thats the reason for two week intervals. You need to get to them as they hatch. As for symptoms each owner needs to watch their horse to determine the course of treatment how long it should continue wheather to double dose again. Some owners may not even see anything at first due to how deep they have already gotten in the tissue. keep in mind that the skin leasion and conditions come in many forms partially because they are dying off at different stages.
Since you created a toxic enviroment for the parasited thru deworming, they now try to make their way out of the horses body thru the skin similar to something running from a fire.
All symptoms should be completely gone before discontiuing treatment.
hope this helps
Who knows how much this plays into the IR horses recovering… I deworm them at intervals sometimes even shorter than two weeks and I do it for a long time…
two weeks does indeed seem to be the magic number.
NTW in relation to club feet
Im sorry I didnt forget you had to feed Im back. I found that left untreated for thread worms scar tissue and calcium deposit developed causing sometimes permanent lameness. We did disections of leggs (for those of you that this bothers I am sorrry but keep in mind atleast these owners that donated leggs for research I am so thankful for you keep in mind that your horse did not die in vain.
The horses that were treated did excellent and most all you cannot even tell they were ever clubbed. Some qwners did not believe that worms could be the problem and therefore refused to participate in a rigid deworming program
So interesting!!
I have been following this thread from day one and I am more amazed each time I log on. I am so thankful that all of you have taken the time to post your experiences and I know all the horses that have benefited as a result are thrilled too
I took the plunge yesterday and double dosed my four horses and one donkey with Equimax.
A little background…One of the horses scratches his head and neck to the point of removing hair. He also has scabs on his midline. Two others scratch their heads and necks but rarely remove hair. The last horse occasionally scratches his tail, but never enough to remove hair. My little donkey has occasional scabs in his mane and on the sides of his face. They are all wormed every 30-45 days (rotate between strongid, quest, equimax, panacur) and I use Ivermectin in between every other time. I do the Panacur Power Pack once a year, but otherwise, I just use single doses.
This evening when I got home from work I realized that the last gelding I mentioned (with the least amount of symptoms) has swelling in his front and back fetlocks on the left side. My first thought was that he may have been lying down for too long…possibly with colic symptoms, but my husband said he watched them in the pasture off and on today and never saw him down. He is eating and drinking normally, no temp, and no heat to speak of in either leg. Is this something that anyone else has experienced? It makes sense knowing that these nasty buggers get in the ligaments, but would these symptoms present within 24 hours and only affect 2 legs on the same side? Sorry for the long post!
