something to kill adult Onchocerca? 19 CASE STUDIES POSTED-PAGE 58

Which part? About Quest being a broad spectrum and targeting the encysted and nematode forms of strongyles / cyathosims or about how once the adult forms are killed, the juvenile forms hatch and/or migrate?

I think some of that was in a link someone else had here. I’m on a diff computer, so I don’t have my links handy. I’ll try to find them.

Here’s one article that discusses the emergence of “hypobiotic” (dormant so to speak) once adults are killed off from a dewormer treatment:
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10428

EXCERPT:

As a result, most of the parasite eggs seen on an FEC exam come from one of many small strongyle species–collectively known as cyathostomins.

There are 52 known species of equine cyathostomins (small strongyles). However, only 12 species are widely prevalent and they represent the largest percentage of the parasite burden carried by most managed horses in the U.S. today. As a result, a positive fecal egg count is a probable indicator of infection with one or more of these 12 species. In the case of horses that have not been regularly treated for parasites, the positive result might also indicate infection with ascarids, large strongyles, or resistant types of cyathostomins (small strongyles).
The FEC measures only the presence of eggs from any of these–or many other–parasites in the horse’s manure. It cannot, however, specifically reveal what species of strongyle parasite is living inside the horse.

Excerpt

yielding a result called “eggs per gram,” or EPG.

For example, cyathostomin (small strongyles) in North America shed eggs in a very seasonal pattern. As a result, EPG values will increase in the spring for horses living in the northern tier state climates. These readings will then peak in the late summer and autumn, and decline in the winter. In states south of the northern tier states, this pattern is precisely the opposite, with the peak occurring in the winter months.

Another important factor that affects FEC results is something known as the “hypobiotic cycle.” Cyathostomin (small strongyle) larvae infest pastures and horses eat them when grazing. After they enter the horse, these parasites invade the tissue of the large intestine and burrow in–becoming “encysted” cyathostomin. Once they are encysted, small strongyles can become dormant, sitting in the intestinal tissue for months or even years. This arrested or inhibited development is called “hypobiosis.”
A horse with a substantial number of cyathostomin in hypobiosis might still have a negative or low EPG because these inhibited parasites are not shedding eggs. Additionally, when a horse is given an effective dose of a dewormer, it will kill off the adult strongyles. The absence of the adults created in the intestines, however, will send a signal to the inhibited cyathostomin to break out of their cysts, become adults, and start producing eggs. As a result, effective parasite treatment might occasionally increase a horse’s EPG.

I hope I didn’t quote anything out of context. I’ve read similar info from other sources. I just don’t have them handy right now.

Got something to report finally!

Ok, I’m back with a report even though it’s only been 24 hours. So, I double dosed one of my horses yesterday (Equimax and Ivermectin…1320 of Equimax and 650lbs dose of ivermectin to do a double dose) . Everyone else just got a full tube of Equimax (for some this was about 1.3x the dose on weight). But for this particular mare, she has had a goopy eye issue that I have been dealing with.

She poops before breakfast every morning so I saw her poop and reminded myself to investigate it once I got done feeding. I go to find the pile, and it was pretty clear which one it was since it was the one with worms in it:cry: This mare has been getting under dewormed for pretty much two years since I was going off of a weight tape. When I wormed 8 weeks ago she had two rounds of ivermectin two weeks apart, full tube (she’s little over 1000lbs). I found 3 types of worms in it that were visible to the naked eye, though I have no clue what I was looking at (no microscope). One was a little thicker than a piece of thread and white. Not very long (inch or two). The other was very rigid but could have been some weird plant material. The other was dark grayish brown and looked like a small football. So, now I’m in a pickle. If she has this many worms in her it’s likely the rest do as well. I checked two piles from two other horses that only had a single dose of Equimax and found nothing. I’m going to keep checking this week to see what I can find. I figure in two weeks I will dose everyone with either a single or double dose of straight ivermectin. I’m so bummed. I’m happy I found worms, which means the wormer did it’s job but now I wonder how overloaded the rest are.

Does anyone know of a site that shows pictures of the worms in actual manure?? It’s hard for me to have a size reference when I’m looking at pics of worms with no ruler next to them.

So far so good on her eyes. I will report back with a follow up.

I am proud to say I have followed this whole thread! I bought a five year old late last summer, whom everyone thought had allergies. His skin would get bumpy, especially near the withers, and he was almost frantically itchy sometimes.

Having read this thread, I treated him last fall by double dosing as recommended here. He gets more itchy afterward, forms welts mostly near his withers, then the welts get smaller, a small grey scab flakes off, and I also start seeing very tiny goldish colored slivers in his hair in the same areas. I groom with a small rubber curry, and those slivers come up off the skin. Then he seems to be better. I followed up with a second dd, and got that same cycle afterward. Then the weather got cooler and he seemed better.

The bumps and itching started up again this spring, so I again double dosed. Same cycle. I am very curious about those “slivers”. I am convinced now that I am not “seeing” things and that they are related to the whole double dosing protocol. Yesterday I saddled him up and took him to the arena, just to have an easy day and watch a friend. I sat on him in the bright noon sun, and scratched around his withers. I saw a tiny tiny worm-like sliver, but this time it was alive. A very light color, tan or goldish. Could hardly see it, but it was there. I should have kept it, but had nothing to put it in. Seemed to be a crawler more than a flyer. They are smaller than this " - ".

What is the durn thing? Are microfileria visible to the eye? Are the “slivers” dead microfileria? Anyone know? Comments? Am I crazy?

My reading says that microfilaria are 200 - 240 micrometers, which is .2 cm. I will try to figure out if the naked eye can see that.

worming schedule for AZ-help please!?

Scared to go thru all of the posts! I had started at one point, but couldn’t keep up.

I’m going to do it, but in the meantime…

Would someone be willing to help me modify, if necessary, EqT’s rotation, but for an AZ-kept horse?

TIA!

OMG BUMPS GALORE!

Last month I did the SafeGuard powerpack, so tapes should be taken care of, right???

Earlier this week I double dosed plain ivermectin. All seemed fine. Before 48 hours one (aged) horse has pencil eraser size hives/bumps/welts all over his neck. Now before 96 hours out the bumps have reached half way back across his rib cage. :eek:

No sign of rubbing being done. So no itchiness?

No signs of sores/wounds/weeping.

Has only happened to oldest horse, nearing 20.

Are the worms fleeing, or do I need to be worried about something else? :confused:

[QUOTE=ThisTooShallPass;4081720]
Last month I did the SafeGuard powerpack, so tapes should be taken care of, right???

Are the worms fleeing, or do I need to be worried about something else? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Powerpak does NOT get tape worms.

According to everything in the thread, the bumps are sign the onchocerca are emerging through the skin. A good sign.

No :wink:

Tapeworms are only killed by a double dose of pyrantel pamoate, or a single dose of praziquantel.

Earlier this week I double dosed plain ivermectin. All seemed fine. Before 48 hours one (aged) horse has pencil eraser size hives/bumps/welts all over his neck. Now before 96 hours out the bumps have reached half way back across his rib cage. :eek:

No sign of rubbing being done. So no itchiness?

No signs of sores/wounds/weeping.

Has only happened to oldest horse, nearing 20.

Are the worms fleeing, or do I need to be worried about something else? :confused:

Fleeing/dying microfilarie (sp) most likely :wink:

Holy Cr@ppol@

Will use Equimax on next go around.

What happens after exiting body? Do they live? How quick do they die? What about injesting them grazing, will trouble start anew?

What about dogs getting them on feet & then licking feet clean?

OMG, what if I injest them grooming??? :eek: Come on, they are small, carriable in dust when flicking brush(?), could I breathe them in???

:eek: :confused: :eek:

Next time I get stiff joints, I’m going to swear it is threadworms hogging up the space!

[QUOTE=ThisTooShallPass;4082109]

What happens after exiting body? Do they live? How quick do they die? What about injesting them grazing, will trouble start anew?
:[/QUOTE]

I’m pretty sure they die fairly quickly once they exit the host. However, I did want to mention, not sure if you went through this novel of a thread or not, but all you are killing is the juveniles. There isn’t any way to kill the adults. So, the juveniles cause problems, you kill them, problems go away, that is…until the adults start breeding again. So, really it’s just a bandaid treatment. The goal is to stay on top of it and make sure the juvies don’t get out of control again.

…and to continue killing the juvies, so they never get to breeding age, so that eventually the current adults die, though that seems to take 10+ years, so better to never let them get a hold on the horse to begin with.

Wonder if the old guy has the adults(?) in his hocks? He had major action back there when young. Now not so. I thought maybe a back issue, but it could be these adults?

With so many juvies coming out in the hives (supposedly), I feel bad about how many adults there must be. :no:

How many weeks, months out do I do this program again in my rotation?

Oh, & TYVM for all the answers! :slight_smile:

Just wanted to post a big THANK YOU to the originator of this thread. For the first time in years, my one incessant tail rubbing critter – who was always trying to outwit my endless and often creative attempts with tail guards, stall bumpers, rump covers, etc, etc, etc, to protect his beautiful tail – is no longer rubbing. Not even the tinest bit.

And all it took was the double dose formula given here.

All I can say is…WOW.

And thank you to COTH for providing a place where the exchange of useful information can really make a positive change. :slight_smile:

Another sastisfied customer… YAY!

Don’t suppose you took before/after pics?

Of his tail before? God, no! That’s sadistic!

I don’t mind sharing an “after” photo, tho.

UGH!!! I am sorry for this, I am sure it’s somewhere in this thread already…but…

My mare has this, (I figured it out via this thread last year!! :slight_smile: YAY! on that part). In March I did my usual Ivermectin for my three horses. I did the double dose of equimax twice for my girl in early April when she first started acting itchy…worked well, plus her always runny eye in the summer…did not act up. :slight_smile: So early May, I am on my regular program (3-way rotation) and used Safeguard… Now end of May and she is getting all itchy again, and the eye has started getting runny…plus my three year old is starting to have the tiny round no hair spots and is itchy too!! Arghhh!!

How often can you dose to keep these buggers at bay??? Help please from the Onchocerca gurus!

Bump…or tell me where to look on this thread???

I think the answer is - It Depends :cool:

Since you had luck last year, I think I would be inclined to try the DD again like you did. You may have a large enough population of breeding adults that while you killed the juvies last year, you have a new batch this year.

Ivermectin is supposed to kill the juvies and sterilize the adult females, but since there is resistance of pinworms and ascarids now, I don’t know that there’s not some resistance of these guys too :frowning: shrug

JB - My concern is that it wasn’t last year, it was earlier this spring that I did the DD. I am worried about over dosing. I just did the usual Safeguard from my typical 3-way rotation earlier this month and the DD in April. Could I DD again, maybe just with Ivermectin…or I am SOL for now, as it’s too close to the Safeguard earlier this month? Yes, I know Safguard is a different “drug” but…I really don’t want to overdose the herd. :wink:

Oh, since you said you learned about this last year, I thought you did the DD last year :slight_smile: Maybe this thread hasn’t been around THAT long though - seems like it :lol:

FYI - single dosing safeguard (fenbendazole) is useless. Take it out of your rotation. For an adult horse its only value is in a power pack.

As for dd’ing again - don’t know what to tell you. You could always try another dd protocol and see what happens.