After relocating to the South, had a mare rub herself raw the first summer. Vet comes out, prescribes steroids and medicated shampoo. Brief relief of symptoms, then more rubbing raw. Asked vet about ivermectin and neck threadworms. She said she was familiar with the “claims” and cited a study dismissing them. I then treated the mare according to the protocol of double dosing Equimax every two weeks for three cycles. Symptoms COMPLETELY resolved. Will be doing the same this summer. No longer use that vet. I am convinced without reservation and so grateful to this forum for this invaluable information.
My understanding is they are identied by skin biopsy.
[QUOTE=Almost Broke;5631185]For those of you who have broached this subject with your vets, how have you gone about it, and has anyone had a positive response?
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Personally, I’ve not found a vet that seriously considers it. I understand NTW were thought to be nearly eliminated when we started using ivermectin regularly and many vets don’t consider it with a horse that has a good worming history. Still, from what I’ve read on the life cycle of the parasite and even with rotational deworming, I don’t see how they can definitively rule it out. If you can find an equine dermatologist, I believe they might take it seriously.
I would think strategic deworming programs might result it in becoming more prevalent but again, they are said to only bother horses that have a hypersensitivity to the larva.
I double-dosed about two months ago when his belly started to show signs of what I’ve always thought was sweet itch. It seemed to slow the bumps down, but today his belly was pretty bad and he’s been itching since the double dose (and before). Doesn’t seem to have helped my horse:( However, I didn’t actually check for the worms, so maybe he does just have some type of sweet itch. It was worth a try. I’m going to get some steroids from my vet, which seemed to help the itching last year. He’s a retired pasture puff, so I just want him to be comfy.
More case studies on the way…
Hey ladies (and gents). This thread sure was an eye-opener and my kudos to those who have itch-free horses now!
Just wow on those contracted tendon babies, too. I trim an aged gelding who has fused knees due to a desmotomy with crappy post-op care, and his 8 yr old daughter, who I have owned since a 2 yr old, has been showing signs of NTWs since mid-2008. Itchy crest and belly, sores, weird bumps in weird places, starts reacting when the gnats/mosquitoes come out, non-responsive to antihistamines, topicals, flaxseed, belly-band/neckguard flysheets and ridiculous amounts of flyspray, controlled turnout… it’s gotten worse since 2008. Now I’m wondering if she picked them up from the same place that her daddy might have got them, since they lived at the same farm.
Aside from her, three other horses may also have NTWs going on.
So here are the beginning stats:
Wisher- 8 yr old AQHA mare. Owned from age 2. Began itching in 2008, worsened in 2009 and 2010. Unresponsive to antihistamines, topicals, fly control, turnout control. Improves in cold weather, worsens in heat and bugs. Severely itchy on her crest, belly and chest. Dry, dull coat in spite of excellent nutrition and recent hindgut rehab with Equishure/Prebiotic. She has had this weird wiggly round cyst or fat or gods know what on the middle of her chest for years. It has seemed to be getting a little larger over the last few years, and this year… there’s TWO of them. Small-marble sized bumps.
Lukas- 3 yr old Appendix AQHA gelding. Owned from late yearling. Dry, flakey skin, very sensitive to bug bites, extremely itchy on neck, chest, belly, and between hind legs. He actually picks up his hind leg as if he’s going to cowkick or scratch his ear, so that you can scratch his inner thigh for him. Came down with a nasty case of rainrot in the fall that went away wih treatment, but returned out of nowhere a couple weeks ago. Very flakey skin all of a sudden… he was looking so good with the flaxseed and his hindgut rehab.
Gooser- 18 yr old AQHA gelding. History of “random” low-grade laminitis, both with cause (starch) and out of nowhere (drylotted and controlled diet). His soles drop and get thin every May, like clockwork. He recovers around August and is sound as a post in the fall, winter and spring. He developed a really, really weird "proud fleshy, seepy, grayish scabby thing that seems to have a “center hole” and has not grown or shrank in almost 4 years, on the outside of his hock. No treatment has resolved it. No infection. It bleeds a lot when the scab is picked off. Vet is stumped. Also has “fat pockets” in a vertical shape along his lower crest… gets itchy belly and VERY itchy neck/chest. Has randomly hived out a couple times in the past.
Sugar Bear- 9 yr old AQHA gelding. Itchy belly, insides of hind legs, and this year, itchy tail. He developed these weird little black bumps, about the size of a pencil eraser, behind his elbow on the girth area in 2009. Thought they were girth rubs or heat-irritation… he didn’t like you touching them (he’s finicky), they didn’t grow, didn’t shrink… they went away in the winter… came back last year… shrank but could still feel them in the winter… and this spring they are back in full force. He hasn’t been consistantly hard, and not ridden hard enough to even sweat since 2009. They ain’t girth rubs. He’s also been having sore back problems (which I think are related to his self carriage (or lack of… he’s a high-headed, hollow-backed brat), but his crest (or lack of) seems particularly stiff and tight.
Only Wisher and Lukas I am convinced absolutely have these little things going on… worsening of symptoms, unresponsive to treatment, classic itchy. She itched so hard last year that she broke her bellyband on the flysheet… sure the bugs can crawl up there, but seriously? She had no mane.
Gooser and Sugar Bear, not so sure, but they all live together and the fly populations have been worse since 2008 when the drought ended. We’re in a “hotpocket” area of Ontario, the temperatures are always warmer.
I don’t buy the “bug allergy” deal for Wisher… she didn’t improve one bit when she was on antihistamines. Lukas and his rainrot issue (he hasn’t even been turned out in the rain, is well groomed and has been treated with medicated bathes, etc…) is indicative of something, especially with how itchy he seems to be getting.
I am going to stock up on Benadryl, find some Equimax and do a 2x dose on those two to start… since Gooser has had issues with allergic reactions to vaccinations in the past, I will do the weekly dose of Ivermectin with him and Sugar Bear, who has less severe symptoms. Sugar Bear is our Congress Polebending Champion and my sister would MURDER me if she came home to find him with “ants in his pants”, so I gotta be extra careful with him.
I also have the benefit of GameReady to “cool down” any really itchy areas after the deworming. All of our horses were dewormed about a month ago with Bimectin and are regularly on flaxseed (Wisher and Lukas on 1 cup/day dose of flaxseed, whole dry seed), so hopefully that might minimize any major histamine reactions.
After reading all of the anecdotal stories, I’m convinced… it also seemed to me that the horses who were “classic” itchy with weird subcutaneous bumps had the best improvement from this protocol. I’ve been doing case studies on digestive problems, hooves, muscle and behavioral rehabs for years… I’ve got an Equine-Aggie Diploma and one year of Professional Writing with another year to come of that. This is totally going on my blog. Some people think I’m a crazy as a kettle… but I always manage to exceed expectations, solve weird or poor-prognosis problems, and help horses become happy individuals. Hopefully I will be able to add this to my list of tricks. I know tons of people in my area who have the same problem of “unresponsive to treatment itchy horse”.
I have Equine Scratchers, too. We’re all set. I’ll post back when I have begun the protocol, hopefully next week. 
~Sarah~
Good luck 
knock on wood, but I havent scrubbed a fungus or treated an itch in years on one of my own horses. I wish the medical world would get up to date on this one, so many suffering horses out there!
No kidding! I was meaning to ask too— have you seen any hoof improvements on your bunch, Eq Trainer? Especially those with recurrent mild laminitis in spite of drylotting and low/zero-starch?
I have been going batty over Gooser and his weird random laminitis episodes… they are very mild, last for a few weeks, and then clear up quickly and suddenly, sound, concave-soled horse. He was tested for IR back in 2008 and apparently is not IR. His grass sensitivity (like if he’s picking at little bits through the fence) is not “always” the same… sometimes it’s there, most of the time, he’s perfectly fine.
He’s also had respiratory allergies, COPD-like symptoms that come and go. Usually they get him in June/July and clear up in August. These developed when he was 10/11 years old and got worse year after year. Whenever he gets a respiratory problem, his soles drop. This has basically led to semi-retirement. He’s usually got a nice consistant weight, a little on the fat side but not excessively so. His weight is “perfect” right now.
If he’s got an infestation of NTWs, could they be messing up his hooves/immune system responses? The horse is definitely starch-sensitive, but I’ve dealt with laminitic and starch-sensitive horses plenty in the last few years, and he’s got me stumped with his “little attacks.” One day he’s sound and literally trying to gallop away on gravel, next day he’s slowly getting a pulse, dropped sole, stiff in corners, and stiff shoulders/knees. He is always worse in the summer- every Mid-May, like clockwork. Booting helps in the recovery phase… icing his legs with my trusty GameReady helps a LOT.
Any ideas? Seen this type of issue before?
Of course, today he is definitely on the verge of acute laminitis because he escaped into the grassiest paddock on the property for a couple hours. 
GameReady seems to have gotten the pulse/heat down and he’s standing comfortably… I am just heading out to do another application.
I have not personally noticed this in relation to NTW but I do own a horse much like you describe. I keep him thin coming out of winter, since I like my horses a bit plumpy he looks shocking here :lol: and I NEVER overtrim this horse… I let his feet be a bit ratty. In the spring he looks like hell but he is sound and stays that way all year round if I manage him this way.
With mine, I think its a hind gut issue combined with a low grade chronic pain issue. Read up on the mechanism of laminitis and see if you think your guy fits the bill, too.
I was just about to start a post about NTW and came across this. Yay!
My yearling has developed signs of NTW and I read through a majority of this, and it seems like the double dose of Equimax is the way to go?
I am not quite sure about his weight, he is 14.3. I know tapes are not the most accurate…Anyone able to guesstimate by his height and age?
And the double dose of Equimax is safe for yearlings??
Thanks EqTrainer. I have been managing him this way too, always careful to leave lots of hoofwall when I trim him, but still in keeping his toes knocked back.
I’m looking at dewormers available locally and I’ve got Eqvalan Gold, Panomec and Bimectin… no Equimax, which seems weird, but I’ll see if my feed store has it before trucking off to the tack shops.
(Equimax----- 1.87 ivermectin, 14.0 praziquantel)
Eqvalan Gold- 1.55 ivermectin, 7.75 praziquantel
Panomec-----1.87 ivermectin
Bimectin----- 1.87 ivermectin
If I can’t locate Equimax, which one would you pick? (I’m leaning towards Panomec).
Eqvalan Gold would be the equivalent of our Zimecterin Gold. If it’s also by Merial, I think I would sooner shoot my horse than give that to him 
Some folks on this thread have had positive results with plain ivermectin, so you could give that a try.
I’m leaning towards Panomec, since Bimectin had that scandal a few years ago… has Panomec had any scandals?! hahaha.
Picking it up today and will be dosing Wisher/Lukas. Poor Wisher is just a lunatic with the itching right now… I rode her last night and all she wanted to do was run crazy (which is in character for her), and then got a little TOO light in the forehand a couple times from barely touching her face, loose rein.
I remember when I had this horrible sunburn and started itching like mad… drove me INSANE. I am thinking her sudden “psychosis” when she turned 5 is related to this itching problem. She used to trail ride without losing her marbles! Now she just gets lighter, and lighter, and lighter in the forehand (if ya know what I mean), and it’s dwindled in to regular every-day riding now.
I’ll be very interested to see if her little psycho pony attitude goes away after this!
I have two horses. One gets itchy and rubs her mane and tail out EVERY summer unless she gets regular doses of ivermectin. Her symptoms go away after frost, start up again when bug season starts up again.
Vet suggested monthly ivermectin. That first year it cleared up, but coincidentally with frost. I took her off the monthly ivermectin, problems came back in the spring and got worse thru the summer.
If I double dose in the spring with Equimax, then do follow up regular doses of Ivermectin when (and its WHEN, not if) the itching and rubbing come back, the symptoms go away. This perhaps isnt scientific, but if I dont do the NTW protocol the mare is miserable, rubs her mane until its gone, her chest until its raw, her tail until the barn is destroyed and the tail is bleeding, and she does this all summer, quits after frost, and regrows hair.
If she is on the protocol she grows a mane, scratches only slightly more than the other horse, who isnt bothered by any cooties at all, and has a nice thick tail and the barn, fence, and corral panels dont get busted up. Takes about 30 or 40 bucks worth of Equimax and cheapo Jeffers ivermectin to get her through the summer. As opposed to the cost of new corral panels and fence posts and various topical nostrums for all the bleeding scabby places. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
ETA–after a couple of seasons itch free the formerly psychotic mare is pretty biddable and a MUCH happier horse who enjoys her life. Fancy that.
What is scientific is that when you take her off the monthly ivermectin, if she does have NTW, the adults are continuing to produce more larva through the winter months, which are not killed, and go on to be new long-lived adults. Your problem will never be resolved.
Chances are good though, if she has no problems in the winter, you’re just dealing with sweet itch and your taxing your horse’s system needlessly with double doses of wormer.
Wouldn’t it make sense that the “problem” would go away in the fall/first frost because the NTW is dependent on the gnat for the life cycle? Do I understand correctly that the gnat ingest the larvae where they hatch and are then re-deposited on the host (horse) where they then migrate to become adults and begin the process over?
I see from some writing that the adults can live up to 15 years – can anyone point me to that? Is this why this is the way you would know it was NTW rather than Sweet Itch? And with all this evidence, is there really a sweet itch per se? Is it all just a worm infestation?! Yikes!
Worms… yuck
[QUOTE=Almost Broke;5651690]
Wouldn’t it make sense that the “problem” would go away in the fall/first frost because the NTW is dependent on the gnat for the life cycle? Do I understand correctly that the gnat ingest the larvae where they hatch and are then re-deposited on the host (horse) where they then migrate to become adults and begin the process over?
I see from some writing that the adults can live up to 15 years – can anyone point me to that? Is this why this is the way you would know it was NTW rather than Sweet Itch? And with all this evidence, is there really a sweet itch per se? Is it all just a worm infestation?! Yikes!
Worms… yuck[/QUOTE]
I don’t think so. My understanding is that the adults produce the larva, which migrate to the skin, which are picked up by the gnats and passed on via the gnat. The horses that have problems are hypersensitive to the larva but I think the problems are mostly from the larva coming from the adults and migrating out the skin.
Horses that have sweet itch are allergic to the gnat bites (saliva) itself. Many horses that are allergic, I believe are sensitive to many things and I’ve read one theory that all these allergies add up in the summer months and the animal reaches a threshold and begins having reactions that they don’t show in the winter. Personally, I’m skeptical of a horse that has no signs in the winter as to whether they’ve got onchocerca.
I do believe NTW are a problem. From what I’ve read, a single dose of ivermectin is plenty to kill the larva and a double dose will not kill the adults. I would just like to see more testing to confirm what we’re treating before we start using the wormers to excess.
I was thinking of doing this program for my crew. Does anyone have a great place to get Equimax cheaply?
Horse Health USA usually has pretty good prices: http://www.horsehealthusa.com/details/Equimax-Paste---Horse-Dewormer/48-55.html
I usually start the gnat season with the double dose of Equimax and then follow up as needed with cheapo Jeffers ivermectin roughly every four to six weeks, essentially timing the dose by either symptoms (to start its a lot of facial itching) or when the farrier comes, which ever happens first. She is a couple hundred pound’s lighter than a whole tube’s worth so its a hefty, but not double dose.
Mare’s tail looks really good this summer. She is not rubbing it. Her mane looks really good. She is not rubbing it. Her face will look better in about a week, because since I gave her a tube of ivermectin last week she STOPPED RUBBING IT.
If the experiences of the last FIVE winters with this horse are any indication, I will be able to stop the ivemectin after frost, and her skin and hair will look fabulous until the gnats start up again next spring. When I first got her the vet advised ivermectin monthly, and after six months or so told me I could quit the monthly doses. The quitting was unfortunately timed for the start of gnat season, and she was ferociously uncomfortable until I started up again. I’ve tried several variations of dealing with her skin issues and the simplest and least expensive and only effective method (short of storing her in bubble wrap)
is to do Choco Mare’s NTW protocol.
The gelding is impervious to gnats and everything else. He gets ivermectin for bots in the fall and equimax for tapes in the spring and requires no maintenance for skin issues in between because he has none.
Horses have exactly the same care (or lack thereof) regimen otherwise. Its been very hot, insects have been very bad, and Sadie’s mane, tail, and skin look very good. I am happy. I would love her former owners, who were very negligent about worming in the name of not fostering resistance, to see her today, end of June, not rubbing her mane and tail out. A few more years and most of the scars on her mane bed should be about gone.
For 3 days I have been reading on this topic from the beginning; finally jumped to the end to see if people are still active since most of what I have read is through 2008. I am so glad to see people are still discussing this.
Since I don’t have the time to read through every post I thought I would just ask some questions now so I am so sorry it this has already been addressed previously. Has anyone had a horse get severely lame from neck threadworms?
For 2 months we have been battling and treating sweet itch; because the vets say it can’t be neck threadworms?!? Then suddenly the horse is extremely lame on his left front leg. Had a farrier out thinking it was an abscess and he couldn’t find anything wrong. Decided instead of listening to the vets I would follow the recommendations on this forum so I double dosed him with Ivermetic (what I had on hand) yesterday morning. By the weight tape he is approximately 1130# so I gave him to full tubes (1250#).
This morning he has the lumps & bumps all over his chest, neck & girth but still extremely lame (basically 3 legged). Does anyone know how long it may take the DD to kill off any worms that may be in his front leg(s) so he will get some relief (if that is what is causing his lameness)? I read on here that someone used a concoction of Ivermectin, DMSO, and furazone on their horse but it was for something else (hematoma?)
Does anyone know if this is used directly on his lame leg if that may speed up his lame issues? Would it be better to wait and give the oral ivermectin more time to kill off the worms? If I don’t see some results in his lameness over the weekend I am probably going to “try” to get him to the vet so I am just wondering if I am rushing things–too much too soon. I say “try” because not sure if I could get him to load with 3 legs and also due to money if they end up doing X-Rays, skin test and everything else that lead to tons of $$$$ being spent.
Any suggestions and/or advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks for all the previous post that have me thinking this is the majority of the problem; if not the entire problem.
