Sore feet/boots

[kande04]

@S1969

Or, put another way - “why would anyone want to wait until after their horses have self-trimmed too much off their feet to offer them protection?”

Because the hoof needs to be conditioned to go barefoot if it’s going to be able to go barefoot, and overprotecting the hoof weakens it the same way over trimming it does.

The point at which they’ve self trimmed too much off their feet is the point at which they can no longer walk reasonably comfortably on the footing they’re on. At that point they get boots, but only until they don’t need them, anymore.

Most horses do not have perfect conformation and perfect working conditions. The chances that they balance their feet better by themselves is unlikely, at best. Just go look at some BLM mustangs. My farrier has a BLM cadaver hoof where the horse died from sinking founder at the age of 6-8. Not exactly the standard I would use for my own horses.

And you think that laminitis is caused by lack of trimming, or bad trimming?

The whole point is that horses who self trim will balance their hooves to their own conformation based upon how the hoof interacts with the ground, which is something that farriers and trimmers can’t do because they can only guess at what the horse’s environment is going to be like between visits.

That, and they often need to make the hoof look as smooth and symmetrical as possible for observers, which isn’t always what is best for the horse.

If this were true, farriers would have been out of business 200 years ago.[/I][/I][/COLOR]

There will always be a need for trimmers and farriers, because maintaining a barefoot horse takes a heckuva lot more effort, and sometimes sacrifice, than calling someone to come and nail shoes on or trim overgrown hooves.

[kande04]

@katyb

If that were true, you wouldn’t be having this issue, right?

What issue?

[S1969]

I will agree that self-trimming is a good solution but only if you allow natural selection to take care of the ones that have neither the genes nor the conformation for balanced feet that wear properly. Which is not the case for most horses.

[kande04]

@S1969

I will agree that self-trimming is a good solution but only if you allow natural selection to take care of the ones that have neither the genes nor the conformation for balanced feet that wear properly. Which is not the case for most horses.

Otherwise healthy horses aren’t going to die from hooves that are out of balance, because they’re perfectly capable of maintaining their own hooves long before they’re in any mortal danger.

Horses wear their hooves the way their genes and environment dictate that they will wear, which results in hooves that are balanced for that horse.

Horses are in much greater danger of dying from many, many issues that have little to nothing to do with how their hooves are maintained (short or long, balanced or unbalanced). The “no foot no horse” adage doesn’t refer to mortality, but to how useful the horse can be to humans.

[S1969]

@kande04

Otherwise healthy horses aren’t going to die from hooves that are out of balance, because they’re perfectly capable of maintaining their own hooves long before they’re in any mortal danger.

Horses wear their hooves the way their genes and environment dictate that they will wear, which results in hooves that are balanced for that horse.

Horses are in much greater danger of dying from many, many issues that have little to nothing to do with how their hooves are maintained (short or long, balanced or unbalanced). The “no foot no horse” adage doesn’t refer to mortality, but to how useful the horse can be to humans.

You’ve missed my point entirely.

I’m not talking about horses dying from uneven wear, I’m saying that “self-trimming” is a less than ideal way to maintain a domesticated horse, because they have not all been bred with genetically hard feet or good conformation. So allowing them to self-trim is likely to result in sore feet and hoof imbalances that can cause overall soundness problems in many (if not most) horses. Or, at best, less than optimal soundness.

If they were truly feral or wild, the best feet and best conformation would be passed on and the results would be horses that could stay sound on feet without farriery intervention. Because - “no foot = no horse” – crappy feet does refer to mortality. Horses that can’t keep up with the herd, can’t run away from predators, or suffer soundness issues will die earlier.

So, you can allow them to self-trim. And the probably won’t die. But most horse owners, vets, trainers, and other professionals would argue that it’s substandard quality of care for domesticated horses.

[kande04]

And my point is that horses who self trim do actually balance their own hooves much more accurately than any trimmer can, so technically speaking, trimming them instead of setting things up so that they can self trim may very well be the substandard quality of care.

Horses don’t need genetically hard feet or good conformation to trim and balance their own hooves, because what they need is appropriate footing and movement so that they can wear, and at the same time condition their hooves to suit the conformation they have.

But part of appropriate movement is appropriate use, which is what makes barefoot so difficult, because humans don’t want to put in the effort nor make the sacrifices that barefoot would require when there are more convenient options available to them.

And of course professionals who make their livings providing services are going to protect their incomes, but it’s always wise to be skeptical whenever there’s money or ego involved.

[Guilherme]

Interesting read from Down Under:

https://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2009/09/brumby-research-results-wild-horses.html

More serious food for thought:

http://horsefx.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Pollitt-and-Hamson-Improving-health-of-domestic-horse-hoof.pdf

The reality, here is that one size does NOT fit all. Shoes are not inherently evil nor is barefoot inherently good.

G.

[S1969]

@kande04

And my point is that horses who self trim do actually balance their own hooves much more accurately than any trimmer can, so technically speaking, trimming them instead of setting things up so that they can self trim may very well be the substandard quality of care.

Horses don’t need genetically hard feet or good conformation to trim and balance their own hooves, because what they need is appropriate footing and movement so that they can wear, and at the same time condition their hooves to suit the conformation they have.

But part of appropriate movement is appropriate use, which is what makes barefoot so difficult, because humans don’t want to put in the effort nor make the sacrifices that barefoot would require when there are more convenient options available to them.

And of course professionals who make their livings providing services are going to protect their incomes, but it’s always wise to be skeptical whenever there’s money or ego involved.

Sure. Its a conspiracy by farriers to convince us out horses need trimming.

My TB mate could be sound on grass or soft sand or dirt at a walk/trot. Wouldn’t have made for a very effective racehorse training program. Or much of any other discipline. Certainly she would have been incapable as a trail horse.

[katyb]

@kande04

What issue?

The issue that prompted you to start this thread?

[kande04]

@S1969

Sure. Its a conspiracy by farriers to convince us out horses need trimming.

Most horses do need to be trimmed because their owners are unwilling/unable to do it themselves. I also think that many, many owners are unaware that it’s perfectly possible for their horses to self trim, and that they themselves are perfectly capable of setting it up so that they can.

[candyappy]

@kande04

Most horses do need to be trimmed because their owners are unwilling/unable to do it themselves. I also think that many, many owners are unaware that it’s perfectly possible for their horses to self trim, and that they themselves are perfectly capable of setting it up so that they can.

Then just get on with it and tell me how I can " set it up" so my horses can self trim.

[Guilherme]

@kande04

Most horses do need to be trimmed because their owners are unwilling/unable to do it themselves. I also think that many, many owners are unaware that it’s perfectly possible for their horses to self trim, and that they themselves are perfectly capable of setting it up so that they can.

The experience from Down Under and many experiences with American feral horses suggests that “self trimming” is a very much “hit and miss” process.

While many owners probably could trim their horses how many would do it correctly? It’s one thing to know how to do a task academically and quite another to know how to do it practically.

And for those owners who are older, suffering from physical limitations, etc. it’s vastly easier, and healthier for them and the horse, to have trims done professionally. And, if the horse needs a shoe to protect the trim, it’s all done at one time.

G.

[jebabacus]

Re: OP boot twisting at walk and not trot. Your horse is rotating that leg/foot at the walk and not the trot. Happens.
Yes, sometimes a better fitting boot will help. But some horses just cannot do boots, unless you glue on (or tape).
Personally, I’d put shoes on. But you can do boots, maybe try different types, and/or tape.

[Larksong]

Mystery foot soreness can be an early sign of metabolic issues/PPID/EPSM, etc. A $60 blood test will give you an assessment of where your horse is on the scale — if he or she has high levels then the fix is diet and an inexpensive medication. Catching it early means a much longer lifespan. Probably pretty cheap compared to years of sleuthing with various boots, shoes, special trims, etc.

[kande04]

@Guilherme

While many owners probably could trim their horses how many would do it correctly? It’s one thing to know how to do a task academically and quite another to know how to do it practically.

The whole point of self trimming is that the horse balances his own hooves. In fact, the horse is way better at doing it “correctly” than any human will ever be.

And for those owners who are older, suffering from physical limitations, etc. it’s vastly easier, and healthier for them and the horse, to have trims done professionally. And, if the horse needs a shoe to protect the trim, it’s all done at one time.

Easier, for sure, but probably not healthier. Barefoot maintenance can be a lot of work compared to calling someone in to trim and/or nail shoes on. So not only is the hoof maintenance itself easier and more convenient (when someone else does it), but the horse can be used sooner/harder/more easily, too.

[Horsie_Girl]

I would certainly try a different trim schedule. My horse won’t look like she “needs” a trim until 12 weeks, but I’ve discovered through trial and error that she is at her best at about 6 weeks. You could try 8 weeks, 6, 4, whatever, but I’d just have your ferrier come by at a few different intervals to find what works best for your horse. For instance, my horse doesn’t seem foot sore at 12 weeks but would be at 8 weeks. I can only assume that she was sore at 8 weeks too but adapted by the time 12 weeks came around. So, it appeared that she felt better after 12 weeks.

I would try different trim intervals first before spending more on boots.

[candyappy]

@kande04

The whole point of self trimming is that the horse balances his own hooves. In fact, the horse is way better at doing it “correctly” than any human will ever be.

Easier, for sure, but probably not healthier. Barefoot maintenance can be a lot of work compared to calling someone in to trim and/or nail shoes on. So not only is the hoof maintenance itself easier and more convenient, but the horse can be used sooner/harder/more easily, too.

You never told us how we make it possible for the horse to self trim ( i asked in an earlier post that you ignored) ? From your vague replies It sounds like you leave the horse to fend for itself.

[kande04]

@candyappy

You never told us how we make it possible for the horse to self trim ( i asked in an earlier post that you ignored) ? From your vague replies It sounds like you leave the horse to fend for itself.

The information is out there and has been for decades. Just google Pasture Paradise and Rockley Farms.

Any horse owner should be able to manage some of it to some degree, and then make up for what they can’t manage with judicial trimming and/or booting.