Sound or not sound? (updated)

@beowulf, let me answer some of those questions. This video must’ve been taken at a bad time, because we all saw the LF lameness in it too. But when the vet came out two days later, there was no sign of it (not even with a flexion on hard ground).

He currently has had three waves of shockwave, which has helped every time. That said, the vet says that three rounds is really the maximum he recommends for C right now. I don’t know why. We have not yet tried PRP or IRAP or stem cell. I am curious about all three. That said, you can see the horse is not super lame. Maybe the vet thinks that would be unnecessary therapy at this time?

He’s turned out from 4:30pm-8:00am in a round pen. They will soon be putting him on a very small grass turnout for a few hours during the day. I guess they don’t want him TOO mobile, which I’m not certain I agree with. What do you think about turnout size?

We’re lucky to have an absolutely incredible farrier who has him in special shoes behind. I have never seen these shoes before, but they almost look like a shield over the frog. Farrier said that his heel is too low, causing too much strain on the suspensory. The shieldy thing gives the heel a slight amount of lift and protection. Not sure why this wouldn’t just indicate a wedge shoe, but this farrier knows 10000X more than I’ll ever know about feet and angles.

Oh! And he’s also on the treadmill about 20 minutes a day, 3 times a week.

Side note: he looks pretty heavy in the video to me. When rehabbing, I try to keep their weight down. It’s just more poundage they have to lug around.

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OMG, so true. He’s SUPER fat. But he’s eating the bare minimum already.

I was informed by two surgeons that things like PRP, stem call , etc are generally not recommended for strains. It’s usually only for a lesion, because they can inject it into the site, rather than create a new “hole”. However, some will inject into the surrounding area. I asked about these for my mare, and that was the given response from both.

You can also do regional limb perfusion with stem cells, but if it is just a strain, I don’t know if that would be worth the hefty price tag.

I think you could do a lot more walking. Out of the arena if you have any firmer ground anywhere (but I wouldn’t go looking for hills yet). On days he isn’t also on the treadmill, he could walk under tack up to an hour (given that he’s already working 50 mins right now including trot). That can help his overall fitness with low stress to the injury.

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Can you turn him out for longer? Maybe muzzle and work up to overnight t/o? I agree he is a bit hefty. Turnout is so helpful to reduce scar tissue and keep circulation going. I agree with lots of walking and on firmer surfaces if possible. Maybe up and down the driveway as opposed to muddy trails or a deep ring. 3 months post-strain he could be worse and you do want to keep the scar tissue more elastic but soft tissue stuff should be a slow return to normal work.

My own oldie had RF suspensory lesions and retired from a very hard job. Vet recommended 60 day stall rest or about 8 months in a field. I opted for the latter and, due to tough a winter, he got nearly 16 months off by the time we legged back up. He was never terribly unsound but the turn out time was so helpful to keep scar tissue elastic and blood moving. He has been sound since for 4 years. When his injury was fresh and he was stalled overnight, I did wrap and liniment him and he was on previcox (for other things). He was turned out about 8-12 hours/day at that point. I didn’t cold hose because I wasn’t set up for it and it was the middle of winter. He moved to 24/7 turnout after about 2 months.

What about a follow up ultrasound, compared to the original that diagnosed the injury?

I think that’ll eventually happen when we think he might be ready to start increasing workload.

I think when you have a long slow rehab like this you need to pay attention to body condition and the loss of muscle mass. This can lead to ill fitting tack. When my former horse did in a suspensory and popped a splint, he had a solid month of just walking under saddle in the arena then built up to trotting etc. He was dressage horse so no jumping. At the time I was aghasted at the length of stall rest before paddock turn out, but vet said invest in a solid rehab now, at 4 years old, rather than deal with ongoing issues. To my knowledge he never had big issues going forward and the 6 months was time well spent.

I think many show horses are far too hefty, It seems to be a trend that started in hunters a while ago and certainly does not befit an athlete. If this horse can stay sound with gentle short 15 minutes walks under saddle, that will benefit his muscle condition overall, particularly the back. Since you have a treadmill, do they have a way to weight load him? Even a borrowed western saddle might help to the transition of carrying rider weight.

I personally want as much turn out time as possible, as long as not a yahoo. I think the program is very sound. My last horse had a surgery and after 2 months stall confinement and 1 month of hand walk stall living, he returned to his outdoor paddock with a very restricted area outside his run in. Pretty much was 24x24 for a month then he was given back half his usual paddock, then once he was cantering under saddle and sound, he got his full paddock back. I was concerned with his being in stall since he lived out 24/7 , but he was a star and remains the worlds second best brown horse to this day.

Neither of the horses above lost their training, the first one was a flightly TB. I thought for sure we would face a huge setback , but he went right back to work smartly.

Hooooo boy.

To answer your question: yes, he’s off LF/RH.

My experience is below. Some, all, or none may apply to you.

Dora is 17 this year. She’s had a history (pretty much her whole life) of a LF/RH lameness that was better while in work. It always blocked to the LF during lameness exams (she had two, one at 5 and one at 14), but I knew her stifles are weak and always though it was the right stifle. No one could find anything on xray or ultrasound on the LF.

In August last year she came up slightly lame LF with mild swelling (swelling was new). Ultrasound revealed a strained check ligament. Vet recommended walking undersaddle starting at 10 min/day adding 5 min a week until we got to 40 min then start trotting at 2 min/day. We also iced daily (against vet’s recommendation, because it really helped her), applied Surpass daily, and lasered every other day. She had been barefoot but we put front shoes on her to make sure the feet were perfectly balanced all the time. She almost immediately became sound and only had a week or so in that period where she was lame, and only while walking uphill. Her walking was only on a hard surface (soft sand is bad for soft tissue injuries), and slightly uphill once she was sound. We got to about 6 minutes of trotting a day when…

In October she injured an unknown tendon or ligament in her RF (it was very swollen but there was no lameness). After consultation with the vet I decided not to ultrasound, since treatment would be the same as the LF injury. Back to walking. Now we were icing, lasering, and Surpassing both legs. I discontinued the Surpass at some point because it wasn’t helping much. By February (due to lots of rain in Dec/Jen) we got to about 4 minutes of trotting a day when…

She came up very lame on the RH. Ultrasound revealed a “pretty shredded” (vet’s words) meniscus. But hey, we can inject the stifle!! Stifle was injected mid-March and then back to walking. We’re now lasering 3 out of 4 legs every other day. :smiley:

With the spring grass, I’ve started locking her in her stall overnight (she’s usually on 24/7 pasture) and when I do that I wrap her with Back on Track wraps - they are AWESOME. Her legs are tight and cool to the touch in the mornings. I actually ordered some BoT turnout boots for when she is out 24/7 again. I’ll probably just have them on overnight. Locking her in has also allowed her to lay down and really rest, which is also crucial (she’s out with 2 young horses that don’t let her lay down for long).

What I’ve learned:

  • Keep them moving. As others have said, scar tissue builds up. Forced exercise (meaning walking under tack at a FORWARD pace, not puttsing around) is better than just turnout, but turnout is also imperative. The treadmill is also great, but I would avoid circles (longeing or a hot walker).
  • Expect ups and downs.
  • My vet said (again, my horse, my vet, different situation, but a *REALLY* good sports medicine vet) that it doesn't matter what the ultrasound looks like or what the leg looks like, if she's sound, she can work. That does worry me a bit, so I am being extra conservative and increasing her work VERY slowly.
  • Listen to your horse. Randomly over the past month Dora has been lame on her LF again :facepalm:. So I started icing it again and that helped. So we ice it everyday - nbd. Once you do this for :counts on all of my fingers: 9(!) months, you'll get a feel for his progress and when to push and when not to push. I hope yours doesn't go that long!
  • Go slow and do what you can to support him. In addition to the specific treatments for her legs, Dora gets a massage at least once a month (more frequently if I feel something off). All of the body is connected, and if one part is tight or weak that will put strain on everything else.
  • Be patient and relish the time with him. It was hard in the beginning for me to think about not jumping or horse showing again, but now I take it one day at a time and will be happy if we can w/t/c again. I love doting on Dora and going on long walks. Take pleasure in doing what you can - if he's good on the trail, find some trails that you can explore together - alone or with friends. Even hand walking out on the trail is good (for both of you!). Maybe try ground driving if you're comfortable with it.
PM me if you want anymore ideas or just to commiserate. Good luck and jingles! <3
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Thank you for sharing your experience! Boy, it sounds like you’ve been through the ringer with this one.

My gelding continues to improve, but there really are ups and downs. The ups and downs are what make me nervous.

I talked to a rehab facility in my state. I can see some potential benefit to sending him there, but at $100/day – and no idea of how long his stay will be – it’s a bitter pill to swallow. I’m leaning towards continuing his slow rehab at home and doing everything I can (continuing the tread mill, the exercise regimen, the icing, the BoT wrapping, the controlled turnout) for another couple months. If he continues to improve, then that’s that. But if he doesn’t a rehab facility may be our best bet.

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Your horse pulled the lucky straw when he got you as his owner. :slight_smile:

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Wow, thank you. Those are the kindest words anyone could ever say to me!

But really…I’m the lucky one. This horse has no equal.

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DawgLady. I’d like to point out that I am not sonestra. Seems this person has chosen a name that is very much like mine. You responded to on of his/her posts saying you would pm me.

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Oops, apologies!

Since the thread was bumped anyway, how is the horse in question?

He’s doing well, thank you for asking!!

It’s now 8+ months post-injury and we’re jumping little courses. Will he ever be a 1.10 horse again? Doubtful. But he’s so lovely it doesn’t even matter. We’re going to a little show next weekend to do the 2’6" jumpers. #Paris2024!

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