Spacing out vaccines

[BeeHoney]

As far as I’m aware there is no evidence to space out vaccines, either in horses or humans. There also is a downside–splitting up vaccinations increases the chances that the second set of vaccines is going to be missed or not done in a timely fashion. In my part of the world, I’ve never heard of reputable farms splitting up vaccines and horses worth 6 figures are routinely given all of their spring vaccines at once.

I would not use a vet that recommended splitting up vaccines, because I would be concerned that they either 1) were not knowledgeable or 2) were knowledgeable but unethically recommending something unnecessary to either charge more $$ or to curry favor with anti-vax nut job clientele. That’s fine with me if a vet wants to cater to anti-vaxx clientele as a customer service issue (and realistically many vets probably do have to deal with this), but that’s not a good fit for me as I prefer to follow evidence based practices.

The only exception to this rule would be the intranasal strangles vaccine, which you would not want any residue from that to contaminate any intramuscular injection sites and you would want to follow your vet’s advice as to what precautions should be taken.

When in doubt, you can always refer to the AAEP website which has a very informative section on vaccination.

[SonnysMom]

In my area it is pretty much a given that spring shots are 2 visits. I have always boarded at a larger facility so the farm call is split between a number of clients/horses. It is much easier to figure out which shot caused a reaction if you only give a few.

In addition to the core vaccines of tetanus, EEE/WWW and rabies most horses get vaccinated for WNV, Potomac Horse and Botulism, rhino/flu. Many also get strangles. Coggins is done with the first set of shots.

Normally the next vet visit is set when they are out to give the first portions so it is unlikely they will be missed.

The fall vaccines aren’t normally split since there are not many given in the fall.

For the spring shots that is a lot at once. It makes it harder to figure out which vaccine caused a reaction if there is one. That is a lot of injections even if you do both sides of the neck. Pincushion.

I know many people that feel that by doing so many vaccines at once the immune response may take longer or may not be as effective since the body is trying to mount an immune response to so many different diseases at the same time. Some people think that it is more stressful for the body to being doing so many at once.

I don’t mind my vet coming out twice for spring shots since my horses gets so many in the spring. I know I would not want to be a giant pin cushion and get all of those at once. Yes I realize that one of them is normally a combo shot but that is still a lot of shots.

[cayuse]

Two visits here also.

[MissAriel]

For all of you who split so that it is easier to tell which one causes a reaction - what do you do if your horse has a reaction to a specific vaccine? Not give that vaccine next year, find a different manufacturer?

From the AAEP Website:

"It should be recognized that:

• Administration of multiple vaccines resulting in administration of both multiple antigens and adjuvants at the same time may increase the risk of adverse reactions.
• Safety and efficacy data are not available regarding the concurrent use of multiple vaccines.
• Administration of MLV and killed vaccines in the same location is discouraged as adjuvants may inactivate the MLV.

Therefore, veterinarians may elect to use a staggered schedule when multiple products are to be administered. Such a schedule should allow at least a 3-4 week interval between immunizations."

So while there is no data to support either all at once or staggered vaccinations, there is some concern with injecting certain types of vaccines in the same location. And statistically giving them all at once increases the risk of a reaction that day, but not necessarily more than the total risk of the vaccines given individually. Until someone does a study I think we will have to file this under “its up to you”

[HiJumpGrrl]

We do Strangles in a separate visit, but all of the IM ones at once. I have known horses to have febrile responses to vax, and in those cases be split.

[Simkie]

@MissAriel

For all of you who split so that it is easier to tell which one causes a reaction - what do you do if your horse has a reaction to a specific vaccine? Not give that vaccine next year, find a different manufacturer?

The first year, I just noted and we proceeded as usual the next year, when we got a much bigger reaction. A bit of a fever I don’t mind but when the horse is so sore it refuses to eat or drink, that’s a problem. Researched alternative manufacturers, picked the one that had the “least reaction” marketing at the time (Vetera) and have stuck with that without a problem since.

One of my others got a little puny feeling and stocked up with the rabies vax this year, which is unfortunate Not a whole lot of options there and the vet has to give it, so limits even more. Spoke with the vet and we’ll treat with banamine next year. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

[IronwoodFarm]

Most vaccines can be given as combos. I only need to give 2 shots for 5 way, WNV, rabies and PHF. I don’t do strangles because my horses are basically a closed herd with a very rare chance of overnight stabling at a show. Maybe once every other year.

Back to the OP’s vet – if I ever had a vet tell me that he/she would not treat a problem related to a vaccine, then he/she would no longer be my vet. Given the lack of empirical evidence that doing all at once or separating makes a difference, I don’t want to be punished for my decision either way. I do pay my vet’s bill and I a good client. It is the height of arrogance to assume that IF you had to call a vet later than day it would only be due to getting all vaccines at once. But even if it was – saying “don’t call me” means you don’t want my business. And you won’t get it ever again.

[Cynical25]

My current gelding is the only horse I’ve ever know who can’t tolerate multiple vaccines - he gets everything individually, 7-10 days apart, so I’m vaccinating like 2 months out of every 6. Every other horse I’ve known - even at 300 stall barns - has always received everything on the same day, often along with floating, sheath cleaning, and chiropractic adjustments on health fair days.

[RedHorses]

Interesting responses. I split mine. My vets don’t like to give too many at the same time because a vaccine is a (low) challenge to the immune system and too many different things at once can compromise the horse’s response. So mine get the four way (tetanus, West Nile, Eastern and Western Encephalitis) in one visit, followed by Potomac and Flu/Rhino in the next. We only do strangles when it’s active in the area and our vets let us know if it is recommended that year. Rabies is done by itself in the fall because it is not a flyborn disease.

In the spring at either vaccine visit the vet will do coggins and teeth. My vet clinic usually runs a teeth special in the late fall/early winter so I have teeth and rabies done then for both horses.

[saitou_amaya]

Well the horse was not sore, did not have a fever, and was not lethargic or seemed off in any way after the vaccines. He only actually got two needle sticks, one in each butt muscle.

But in a recently development, horse has not eaten any hay since the float yesterday. He is eating grain, grass, treats, and has an appetite. But seems to be having issues chewing hay. There were some partially chewed up bits of hay and some slobber in his water bucket. And his stall was totally full of hay from breakfast and lunch hay. When I offer his some hay by hand he kind of lips it and doesn’t chew.

In the 12 years I’ve owned this horse I have never had him go off his hay after a float. The barn owners says that some of her horses that also got floated were not eating hay and that has happened to them in the past. This is a new one for me though. Anyone have any experience? Not sure I want to use this vet next year for teeth if he made my horse so sore he couldn’t eat hay. I will definitely be calling him Monday, but debating if I should call sooner. I’m a bit worried the horse isn’t eating hay, but he does go out all night and is grazing so at least he is getting something.

[BeeHoney]

A horse should definitely not be off his feed after a float. Because this is a complication of a procedure that the vet performed, and because going off of feed can lead to serious consequences (colic), I would call the vet today. IMO the horse should have it’s mouth examined thoroughly. Personally, I supervise the dental care for a reasonably large number of horses and I’ve never had one go off it’s feed or even have a bitting issue afterwards. I would definitely NOT use a vet for dental work that had a history of this happening without a very good explanation (such as treatment of a severe, pre-existing dental issue).

It’s not really my place to interfere–over the internet, no less–with your relationship with your vet. Nonetheless, I’m not getting a great feeling about your vet. Can you trust this vet to take seriously or honestly evaluate a possible complication of their dental work? Power float tools can cause serious complications, so there is something at stake here. Another option would be to call out a different vet. In the meantime, I would consider feeding your horse some type of a mash to keep something in his stomach and to closely monitor his feed and water intake. Others may feel differently, but I take it very seriously when horses go off their feed.

[MGLpony]

Back to the original question…the immunosuppressive effects of sedation might be one reason some vets won’t sedate and vaccinate. Even though a study hasn’t been done to directly measure any variance between immunization and immunization with sedation, some vets may believe/been taught that maximum immune response will be achieved without additional stressors. Here is a literature review . Looking at the immunosuppressive effects of veterinary anesthetics/sedatives. http://www.vaajournal.org/article/S1467-2987(16)30307-5/fulltext

[MGLpony]

As for dental care at least one vet in my area who is affiliated with Ucdavis has told me that they’re realizing that less is more. She now prefers to hand float horses who stay up on regular maintenance. I think best practice in this area is still evolving.

[Scribbler]

My horse was NQR for a good week follow the one time she was tranqued for teeth plus got a 5 way shot the same day. 5 way here is flu, rhino West Nile, Western encephalitis, and tetanus. Since then I have chosen to do shots and tranq on different days.

She isn’t tranqed every year, some years we get by with a hand float, no tranq no speculum.

Interesting to read here about the interactions between different carrier agents and also tranq and immune response.

I am not anti vacc at all, but I like the idea of minimizing stressors. We are in a big barn and the vets are in and out for different calls so it’s possible to do things at intervals.

I know that when I was getting ready to travel in Asia back in the last millennium the tropical disease unit here had me in for a bunch of shots, and definitely at intervals. And some of them did hurt after at the injection site.

I also quit getting human flu shots a few years ago when I got a lingering NQR reaction for a few years. I’m not in a high risk group or occupation so it’s optional.

On that topic, how necessary do you all think flu and rhino shots are for horses?

[HappyTalk]

@RedHorses

Interesting responses. I split mine. My vets don’t like to give too many at the same time because a vaccine is a (low) challenge to the immune system and too many different things at once can compromise the horse’s response.

I have to question this. A horses’s immune system is challenged every day just by life. Think pollen, mold, bacteria etc.

[Simkie]

@Scribbler

On that topic, how necessary do you all think flu and rhino shots are for horses?

I don’t bother unless I have horses traveling regularly, to shows or the like. I don’t think I’ve done flu/rhino in like … 10 years?

[ryansgirl]

@Simkie

I have a horse that reacts, so the vet comes out for rabies and I administer the others myself, spaced out along the calendar.

If you’ve never seen a reaction, probably no reason to break it up, although the comments about caution with the strangles vax are certainly spot on.

Same here. Vet does rabies (required by law to be done by a vet in my state) and one other and typically leaves the rest with me to do later - I space them out. I don’t do strangles. My vet does teeth also and xrays of front feet (past history of laminitis so we check at least yearly for any changes).

I do keep banamine on hand just in case my mare isn’t quite right after spring shots (as has been the case a few times in the 15 years I’ve owned her).

[findthedistance]

I’m in a very high-risk area for PHF, so the standard protocol around here is to give two PHF boosters in the spring, about a month apart. If we’re vaccinating twice anyway, we might as well split the vaccines.

Our normal vaccination plan is: PHF, flu/rhino, strangles in early spring; EWT/WNV, PHF in late spring; flu/rhino, rabies in the fall. With only two sticks in a visit (IN strangles), it makes it easier to tell what the source of the problem was if we get a reaction.

[CHT]

We are considering doing the Rabies vaccine next year. In discussing this with my vet, she said she would want to do it separate from the other vaccines due to the high risk of a reaction.

Currently we do any IN shots on the same day as dental floats (easier when dopey), IM shots a few weeks later. I have a couple horses that reacted this year, and I will make sure their core shots are spaced out when done next year.

It costs slightly more, as the all-in-one vaccines cost less, and you have to pay a second administration fee, but may be worth it for these horses.

[Scribbler]

@CHT

We are considering doing the Rabies vaccine next year. In discussing this with my vet, she said she would want to do it separate from the other vaccines due to the high risk of a reaction.

Currently we do any IN shots on the same day as dental floats (easier when dopey), IM shots a few weeks later. I have a couple horses that reacted this year, and I will make sure their core shots are spaced out when done next year.

It costs slightly more, as the all-in-one vaccines cost less, and you have to pay a second administration fee, but may be worth it for these horses.

I thought the idea was to not do IN strangles on the same day as dental because of the risk of infecting a skin wound?