Spaying a dog by only removing the ovaries???

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;6780709]
Houndhill - thats fine. Not something I would be comfortable doing (but I dont have large breeds who are prone to osteosarcomas). I also lost a dog who had an ovarian tumor that had metastasized before the ovary couldbe removed. She was a small breed dog. Im sure you can understand the risks to both sides of the story.

Do you know what the stats are on intact females and osteosarcomas? I know that in Rotties there is a higher chance of developing it when spayed/neutered before age 1. The two we diagnosed last week were both intact females (One was a chessie, the other a standard poodle) I thought it was fairly rare. Both these dogs have had litters before but Im not sure of how recently. I am unsure the age of the poodle but the chessie is only 5. Also, a golden we CT’d a few months ago was an intact female, but only 8 months old. She had osteosarcoma on her rib.

Im not against keeping intact animals at all, just curious.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I am so sorry to learn of these cases, especially sad is the 8 month old. I had known of a 9 month old intact greyhound bitch with osteosarcoma in a front leg, but how sad for the pup.

Here is what I found as far as references on wikipedia:

As with any surgical procedure, immediate complications of neutering include the usualanestheticandsurgicalcomplications, such as bleeding and infection. These risks are relatively low in routine spaying and neutering; however, they may be increased for some animals due to other pre-existing health factors. In one study the risk of anesthetic-related death (not limited to neutering procedures) was estimated at 0.05% for healthy dogs and 0.11% for healthy cats. The risk for sick dogs and cats were 1.33% and 1.40% respectively.[6]
Spaying and neutering cats may increase the risk ofobesity.[7]In cats, a decrease in sex hormone levels seems to be associated with an increase in food intake.[8]In dogs, the effects of neutering as a risk factor for obesity vary between breeds.[9]
Neutered dogs of both sexes are at a twofold excess risk to develop
osteosarcoma
as compared to intact dogs. The risk of osteosarcoma increases with increasing breed size and especially height.[10][11][12]
Studies of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of
hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed females than intact females and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.[13][14]
Spaying and neutering is associated with an increase in urinary tract cancers in dogs.[15]
Neutered dogs of both sexes have a 27% to 38% increased risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations. However, the incidence of adverse reactions for neutered and intact dogs combined is only 0.32%.[16]
Neutered dogs have also been known to develop hormone-responsivealopecia(hair loss).[17]
A 2004 study found that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of cranial cruciate ligament (CCL) rupture, a form of anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury.[18][clarification needed]
[edit]Specific to males
About 2% of neutered
male dogseventually developprostate cancer, compared to less than 0.6% of intact males.[19][20]The evidence is most conclusive forBouviers.[21]
In a study of 29 intact male dogs and 47 castrated males aged 11–14, the neutered males were significantly more likely to progress from one geriatric cognitive impairment condition (out of the four conditions – disorientation in the house or outdoors, changes in social interactions with human family members, loss of house training, and changes in the sleep-wake cycle) to two or more conditions. Testosterone in intact males is thought to slow the progression of cognitive impairment, at least in dogs that already have mild impairment.[22]
As compared to intact males, male neutered cats are at an increased risk for certain problems associated withfeline lower urinary tract disease, including the presence ofstonesor a plug in theurethraand urethral blockage.[23]
Neutering also has been associated with an increased likelihood of urethral sphincter incontinence in males.[24]
[edit]Specific to females
There is some weak evidence that spaying can increase the risk of
urinary incontinencein dogs, especially when done before the age of three months. Up till 12 months of age, the risk decreases as the age at spaying increases.[25]
Spayed female dogs are at an increased risk of
hypothyroidism.[26]
[edit]Current research
Various studies of the effects neutering has overall on male and female dog aggression have been unable to arrive at a consensus. A possible reason for this according to one study is changes toother factorshave more of an effect than neutering.[27]*One study reported results of aggression towards familiar and strange people and other dogs reduced between 10 and 60 percent of cases,[28]*while other studies reported increases in possessive aggression[29]*and aggression towards familiar and strange people,[30]*and yet another study reported no effect on territorial aggression, and only a reduction in dominance aggression that existed for at least 5 years.[31]*For females with existing aggression, many studies reported increases in aggressive behavior[32][33][34][35]*and some found increased separation anxiety behavior.[30][36]*A report from the American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation reported significantly more behavioral problems in castrated dogs. The most commonly observed behavioral problem in spayed females was fearful behavior and the most common problem in males was aggression.[37]*Early age gonadectomy is associated with an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors.[38]

^Priester; McKay, FW (1980).“The Occurrence of Tumors in Domestic Animals”.National Cancer Institute monograph23(54): 1–210.PMC1790092.PMID7254313.
^Ru, G; Terracini, B; Glickman, L (1998). “Host related risk factors for canine osteosarcoma”.The Veterinary Journal156(1): 31–9.doi:10.1016/S1090-0233(98)80059-2.PMID9691849.
^Cooley, D. M., Beranek, B. C. et al. (1 November 2002).“Endogenous gonadal hormone exposure and bone sarcoma risk”.Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev11(11): 1434–40.PMID
12433723.

This did not include the Rottie article about longevity, keeping ovaries, and osteosarcoma risk, still trying to find where I filed that one.

Yes, the young golden was horrible. No one thought it could be cancer, especially at that age…but it was. She only lived a few weeks before the tumor grew into her lungs and caused her to become dyspnic.

Im not responsible enough to own an intact dog. They come to the barn with me, horse shows, hacks, to work etc. and I do not always watch them like a hawk. I would love to one day have an intact male working lab, but now is not the time.

My most recent addition was spayed late (about 1.6months old), and the adoption contract states that they must be spayed/neutered before leaving the facility. The other dog is a pitty, and by law must be spayed. She is 13 though, with no issues. My Greyhound lived to 12, she was spayed at 1 year. My german shep.lived to 15,she was spayed at 6 months. The intact small breed cross was about 6 and she died from cancer. Didnt have her long, and had no history (she was a stray), but looked like she had several litters. SOmetimes I think we give them the best chance possible,with feeding them good food, spaying (or not spaying) as we are told…and they just either win (or dont win) the luck lotto.

Most of the Shepherds and Mallies that work with the police services are intact, and generally very healthy dogs. They are pigs in their kennels though!!

Someone had mentioned to me that my late dog may have had this procedure. I adopted her at 4 years old, there was no record of spaying, no obvious scar, but she never went into heat. She did develop malignant mammary gland tumors; had one removed, then another, and started growing a third before she was pts for something else at age 15.

yeah, the evidence continues to accumulate that leaving your dog intact is healthier, overall, for a wide range of reasons- neutering reduces the risks of some diseases but increases the risks of others, and overall the risk:benefit ratio favors the intact state. At the very least you shouldn’t neuter until the dog is fully physically mature.
It’s not hard to own an intact animal responsibly- you don’t have to “watch them like a hawk”, you just have to train them and not let them wander around loose and unsupervised, e.g. you fence your yard securely and use leashes/ good recall training in all other settings as appropriate, which hopefully you’d do anyway with any dog, intact or not. You have to be able to recognize the signs of heat in a bitch and take steps to keep her from breeding during this period, and you should enlist help to train your intact male dog to be able to respond to obedience commands even in the presence of bitches in heat.

[QUOTE=Houndhill;6774572]
Another take on the spay issue (also done more commonly in Europe) is to remove the entire uterus and one ovary, but leave the other ovary for the protective effect against osteosarcoma, spayed bitch incontinence, and hypothyroidism, all of which are more common in spayed than intact bitches, while eliminating the risk of pyo. I will try to find the link to it, but it was mentioned to me by a former president of the British Small Animal Veterinary Society.[/QUOTE]

I know it is anecdotal, but we spayed our female doberman a bit after 6 months at our vet’s advice, and she became incontinent at age five. When she was six she developed osteosarcoma and we put her down a little over a month ago.

Osteosarcoma (which is an extremely aggressive and malignant form of cancer) and incontinence are a higher risk in a large breed dog. In fact, it was a Rhodesian breeder who first told me about waiting until at least a year to spay…I had never heard of such a thing at the time (except for some silly stuff my uncle said about a cycle influencing temperment for the better, which I wasn’t open to for just his reason).

I wish someone had told me about this. Having a 73lb incontinent dog is bit of a nightmare. My (other) uncle’s female boxer (also spayed young) was incontinent around 3 or 4.

I know this is anecdotal, but I urge anyone with a large breed dog to do further research. I found several studies on this (the rottie study among them) doing research online after Z was diagnosed.

I still cry pretty much daily.

p.s. I also wish AKC or some other organization compiled death data. I can “unactivate” her, but no one asks for date of death, cause, etc. I’m not saying they have to do something with the research, but it seems to me they could easily collect it with all the other stuff (titles, etc.) and someday someone might do something with the data. Just a random thought.

p.s. I also wish AKC or some other organization compiled death data. I can “unactivate” her, but no one asks for date of death, cause, etc. I’m not saying they have to do something with the research, but it seems to me they could easily collect it with all the other stuff (titles, etc.) and someday someone might do something with the data. Just a random thought

good thought.
some of the pet insurance companies have published studies on deaths, since they have this data- that’s when most pet owners put in claims for reimbursement.
here’s one on bone tumors, with free full text:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1940277/

You most certainly do need to watch your animals closely if they are intact. Unsupervised activity with other intact dogs is not a good idea,no matter how trained they are. So yes, my idea of watching dogs like a hawk is in essence, not allowing any unsupervised time around other intact animals. Clearly, I didnt mean in your own back yard.

I allow my pets lots of unsupervised time, they are often pet-sit by friends (who have pets), and often hang out at me with work during the day. For our lifestyle, they would not be suited being intact.

Sorry, did not mean to hijack or contribute to the hijacking of this thread (why is it so easy to do that!? )

I did not mean to suggest that the OP should not spay her bitch, just was suggesting she might consider another sort of surgery (i.e., remove uterus, not ovaries) but if she was going to remove ovaries, since it is a large breed dog, perhaps wait til full bone growth and realize the increased risks of certain health conditions.

Man, I am so guilty of thread diverting! So sorry.

Lots of good info and ideas here. I was waiting for her to get older, (she is 8.5 months now) but “intact” just won’t work for me. I have an intact male boxer and our Great Pyrenes male…neither is THAT well trained. My vet (who owns a full sister, spayed at 2-3 months in conjunction with an umbilical hernia repair) said mine, Mako, could come into heat by 9 months. I am not set up with kennels or a safe confinement area. The office in the stable would work, but as a house dog she would not consider that a good living place for several weeks!!! Mako is probably close to 80 pounds already, but I don’t know when she will stop maturing. Mom, a Boerboel, was 105 before she was bred at two years. Thoughts???

OP, I can certainly see why you need to spay her, no intact male is THAT well trained! You really have to have maximum security facilities for separation to attempt to keep multiple intact dogs of both genders, particularly with large breeds. Some dogs can achieve truly impressive breakouts, and can be stressed if not well managed (to say nothing of the owners!)

Yes, sounds like she might come in soon. In your position, I would probably just go ahead and do it, although I would find the necessity for a pre-pubertal spay an even stronger reason to consider doing the hysterectomy (uterus/one ovary) rather than removing both ovaries. If done after one year of age, an elective gastropexy during the same surgury might also be considered.

I don’t suppose there is anyone (trusted person with maximum security confinement capability) she could go stay with when she comes in heat, for at least one season? Actually it can be a great socialization experience for a youngster to go live someplace else for a time, if it is the right place, but the right place for your beloved bitch in heat can be hard to find if you don’t know other breeders.

Most people would just do it without worrying about it, and I would with a small dog, but with the osteosarcoma-prone larger breeds, who are also more often hit with spayed bitch incontinence which has “larger” consequences, just something to think about.

Off topic, sort of, but the Irish Wolfhound Foundation has just received over $30K in donations to support research on osteosarcoma in IWs. An anonymous donor donated $10K, members donated another $10K in matching funds, then we had another anonymous $10K donation!! Maybe someday we will be able to better treat or even prevent this awful disease.

I don’t suppose there is anyone (trusted person with maximum security confinement capability) she could go stay with when she comes in heat, for at least one season? Actually it can be a great socialization experience for a youngster to go live someplace else for a time, if it is the right place, but the right place for your beloved bitch in heat can be hard to find if you don’t know other breeders.

that’s what I would suggest. Or board out the boys. The longer you can delay the spay, the better off the dog will be. Or you can invest in some sturdy crates and bitch-pants and learn how to keep animals separate- many people manage to live for years with dogs who hate each other to the point they have to be separated at all times, not just for a couple of weeks. It’s doable.

Once you get used to keeping intact animals it’s not a big deal; the bitches only go into heat twice a year, and the rest of the time you can treat them just like you would treat a spayed female. Intact males you can treat like neutered males all the time- they really don’t act much differently. The only times I’ve seen intact males act badly is when the owner uses the “intactness” to excuse bad behavior instead of preventing/fixing the bad behavior.

We live in VERY rural Oklahoma…I can’t even see a neighbor’s house from our 80 acre farm!!! I honestly know NO one I would trust with one of my dogs…and for sure not my males!! That’s why I have several adopted strays in my home!!! If the heat came during warmer weather I could use the barn office or a stall, but Mako’s favorite spot at this time of year is at the base of the wood stove or next to my bed at night!! With 25 horses and 5 dogs, I just can’t face “dog/bitch roulette” and hope I don’t have an accident!! Mako’s mom had 16 live pups…I don’t know 16 people in this part of the world I’d trust with a dead dog, let alone a beloved one!!! I guess I’ll just have to trust my vet’s advice…even if there are safer alternatives. Thanks for all the info.