Spin off from Dog Show thread...Bouvier des Flandres

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=independentlyawesome;7686323]
There’s farm dogs who are left outside to guard all the time, there’s farm dogs who have a job with the livestock, and there’s farm dogs who trot around the yard a bit then curl up in a sunny spot.[/QUOTE]

Just to clarify . . . They aren’t LGDs and most wouldn’t do well being left outside to guard all of the time. They aren’t for everyone due to the fact that they can be stubborn and they are generally aloof with new people. They are pretty lazy, though, and often do not make the best protection dogs.
Bouvier rescue may be helpful in discussing general characteristics of the breed. Breeders are generally protective of the breed and will definitely discuss the qualities that some people do not like. If you have one nearby, you might be able to meet some if you are still thinking you might be interested.

[lilitiger2]

[QUOTE=Casey09;7686555]
Just to clarify . . . They aren’t LGDs and most wouldn’t do well being left outside to guard all of the time. …They are pretty lazy, though, and often do not make the best protection dogs…[/QUOTE]

Very very true! They like to be right with their people!

[Where_sMyWhite]

I’ve had Bouvs for over 25 years, never as a breeder. As with any breed, you would want to know where the dog comes from, and if from a breeder, how the pups were raised and what the parents are like.

I got my in part for the conformation ring and mostly as companion (but, as I do not live on a farm, that was not a consideration).

I have loved every single one of them and miss them at the breed every day (I am currently in a wheelchair and have a Border Terrier).

One of my most stubborn dogs was also the most loving and gentle. I’ll never forget the day that some friends came over with their infant in one of those seats that double as carrier and car seat… he carefully curled up around the carrier which was sitting on the floor and kept watch over her.

They are a herding breed but very different than most of the herding dogs you see in competition. They are drovers rather than fetchers (i.e., they go with you to move stock, not go out and bring the stock to you). They can learn to fetch but that is not their natural style. They also have a soft eye rather than, say, the, BC’s that have a much harder eye when moving stock.

Mine when to the groomers usually every 1-2 months (usually every month) as grooming/bathing for me was hard. My last 2 had uncropped ears which I loved along with a shortly trimmer beard. The only “smell” I ever noticed is their feet, to me, always smelled like Fritos

Their nickname is Vuillbard or Dirty Beard

If I was in a better position in my life for a big dog, I’d have another one in a heartbeat. Yes, I love my BT, but I so miss my Bouvs…

PS- They have been used in the past for law enforcement/military but not as much any more as some of the other higher drive breeds such as the Mals, or Tervs or GSDs.

[vtdobes]

I’m a little interested in Bouvs as some friends of mine own/train them in IPO. The only time I see them is when we get together and train so the ones I’m familiar with most likely come from a whole different line than your average Bouvier!

Based on these workings examples I’ve seen I would not recommend the breed to just anyone. But of course I know there are other lines who are probably quite different in temperament/working ability.

[Romany]

Interesting to read such a variety of experiences…

I’ve only known a couple, and I did not like them. They were well-handled and well-trained, but despite this they were still, ime, pushy, argumentative, and domineering.

I prefer dogs which are more cheerful and jolly, and less brash.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=Romany;7686935]
I’ve only known a couple, and I did not like them. They were well-handled and well-trained, but despite this they were still, ime, pushy, argumentative, and domineering.

I prefer dogs which are more cheerful and jolly, and less brash.[/QUOTE]

That is most unfortunate. But, IMO, they are not a breed for everyone. Many of the herding breeds need to have some independence as that is required for wiring stock… can’t always wait for the herder to be making the calls.

[sascha]

Loud, aggressive, and nasty has been my experience. I wouldn’t thank you for one.

[Go_Fish]

@Sonesta;7685682

I have a friend in Cave Junction, OR, that breeds and shows Bouviers. I’m sure he’d love to talk to you about them. I have heard him say that they are not a breed for everyone and that they can be aloof - especially with strangers - and make great watch dogs.

I have a friend who breeds them, also and what you said is spot on. Like many herding breeds, they are not for everyone. One thing I WOULD say about hers is that they are good with children. They sort of treat the children like a flock to be guarded, and woe to the person (like the UPS guy) who tries to come between the dog and the kids.

My friend’s Bouviers don’t bark much that I’ve noticed. They sort of give you the “death” stare, much like a Dobie. You can’t read what they’re thinking.

Hers are VERY territorial. She has about 40 acres and those 40 acres must be patrolled several times a day.

I personally like the breed, but I have Corgis and grew up with Heelers, so I’m used to dogs with personalities like a Bouvier.

[cbv]

Thanks every one for the responses. And especially for the folks who suggest careful research and deliberation. I promise my post here was just a whim based on another thread. I would not use this forum as the basis of my decision on a future dog.

In fact it makes me smile a little because you can search these forums and hear all the same kinds of really negative reviews of both Border Collies and Cattle Dogs. In fact when we got our Cattle Dog I came on here to ask for experiences with them as farm dogs and companions. The responses scared the heck out of me. I also remember being at a big festival with my ACD (behaving a perfect gentleman to people and other dogs) and a guy stopped us and said he had an ACD that was a “vicious killer” (I believe of chickens and other dogs). I did work hard to socialize my ACD and curtail any thoughts he might have about herding horses or chasing barn cats. But did not find the effort required to train him that difficult. And as I said, to me and most of my friends and family, he rates as the “best dog ever”

For a little more background though, I have had BC’s since college and likely will continue to have one. But my husband and I have been married a long time and always had a multidog household, including Great Danes and Borzoi’s (and BC’s all at the same time!). Loved them all and understand/appreciate different temperaments and motivations require different techniques to train according to the breeds nature.

Also understand breeders tendency to protect the breed. Had an adopted dog in college and didn’t realize she was a border collie/mix until I read Nop’s Trials. After reading it I went right out and got my first registered BC from a working dog line. And Donald McCaig would hate that! :). Knowing how he feels about BC’s as pets, I still read all his books and enjoy his insight and curmudgeonly ways. And I always include all the caveats…“high energy, need a job, not for everyone” when people ask about BC’s as pets.

[lilitiger2]

Sounds like you are a loving and attentive dog owner! good luck in getting any new friend, and with your research on bouvs if you are so inclined. I’m biased!

Funny enough, I was at sheep dog trials and thought the BCs rocked! But, in talking with the owners and breeders there, I decided that I am not likely high enough energy and I don’t (yet) own sheep! But if I ever did, I would totally get into the whole herding thing!

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=S1969;7685564]

Often people that have known one example of my breed (Brittany) will describe it as a nervous, high strung, or naughty dog. Of the 50+ Brittany owners I know, very few of us would describe Brittanys in general as nervous or high strung, although some of us have known a few specimens that weren’t great. (Ok, maybe naughty, but that’s because they are smart! ) But it only takes one dog in the wrong family to make people think it’s the breed that is the problem, not the situation.

Don’t know any Bouviers but I think they are gorgeous! :)[/QUOTE]

My Brittany is a nervous wreck, but I never thought it was the breed. I just figured the jackleg who abandoned him near my farm had no more skill as a trainer than morals as a human being and wound up ruining him. Well, ruined him as a gundog anyway. Drop your keys on the coffee table and poor James Brittany is off to the races! But as a housepet he’s really, well, entertaining. :lol: We adore him.

I know only three things about Bouviers:

1. Jackie Kennedy had one, since Bouvier was her maiden name.
2. The coat’s a lot of work.
3. Years ago, when I showed chows, the chow handlers talked about what nasty temperaments the Bouviers had. :lol: The breed may have improved since then, mind - this was over thirty years ago, and things do change. Take Norwegian Elkhounds, for example. Nice temperaments now, used to be man-eaters.

I’d go talk to breeders, meet some of their dogs, etc. That’s always fun, whether you decide to get a dog or not.

[cbv]

[QUOTE=lilitiger2;7687801]
Sounds like you are a loving and attentive dog owner! good luck in getting any new friend, and with your research on bouvs if you are so inclined. I’m biased!

Funny enough, I was at sheep dog trials and thought the BCs rocked! But, in talking with the owners and breeders there, I decided that I am not likely high enough energy and I don’t (yet) own sheep! But if I ever did, I would totally get into the whole herding thing![/QUOTE]

Don’t actually need sheep…just steady supply of tennis balls and Frisbees. I used to run trails to keep them occupied when I was younger and lived near the Appalachian Trail, but now we actually have a designated “chuck-it” field. And an endless number of nieces/nephews that will throw the ball until I have to call time. That is why I will always have a BC, the entertainment value and they love everyone.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;7687831]
My Brittany is a nervous wreck, but I never thought it was the breed. I just figured the jackleg who abandoned him near my farm had no more skill as a trainer than morals as a human being and wound up ruining him. Well, ruined him as a gundog anyway. Drop your keys on the coffee table and poor James Brittany is off to the races! But as a housepet he’s really, well, entertaining. :lol: We adore him.[/QUOTE]

Aw, that makes me sad. I’ve just started working our youngest in the field (finally found a trainer) and despite him being what I would call hard-headed (for a Brittany, I guess), he is what the trainer calls SOFT… and we’ve already over-corrected him and now have to re-adjust. (Trainer is mainly a GSP guy…and while he’s great, Brittanys…are just different.) Even I’m surprised and how quickly my dog developed a negative association (did not fully understand “whoa” when approaching a bird, had it yelled at him a couple of times, and then decided “nope, no bird here…I don’t smell anything…lalalala” – aka “blinking” birds.) So, we’re back at “find the bird…YAY!!” for a while until he regains his confidence.

So, I’m not surprised it’s possible to ruin them easily - but I’ll also say again…not all breeders are good ones. Sadly. And they take one or two good points (great nose, big runner) and breed them together, and ignore the skiddish, shy, or nervous temperament. (Especially if the dog will live in a kennel…) UGH. I know it happens in the show ring too, but most show dogs I know have great personalities.

I guess the best advice for finding a purebred dog always goes back to – talk to the breeders. Get to know as many breeders and owners as you can…find the common points and the people you like and learn from them.

[cbv]

[QUOTE=lilitiger2;7685506]
This is about the best article on Bouvs. And I learned something! They do mention smell - I never noticed ours (he can smell like a wet dog for sure but so do almost every other breed, if you take them swimming then pop them in the car!) but I guess they can!
Otherwise, many of these are great tips for any dog but very good for Bouvs.

http://bouvierclub.co.uk/dont-buy-a-bouvier/[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed the article and made the dogs sound like great companions despite the warnings. Actually the warning that caused the most concern for me was the issue of bloat. Loved our Danes but always worried about bloat and were so obsessed weight, feeding and exercise it felt like having a couple extra horses with a history of colic. Probably an unreasonable fear but was always with me. Same with the Borzoi though less so. One reason after the big dogs passed we decided to “downsize”. Assume in reality any dog can bloat and even with current herd we don’t feed right before or after vigorous exercise, and keep all my dog’s trim, but I don’t obsess about like I did with the big deep chested dogs.

But interesting discussion and I am still interested in finding out more and actually meeting a Bouv in person some time.