Spin-off from vet bill thread: what would you do in this situation?

[Caol_Ila]

Reading the thread about who owes what for a vet bill reminded me of a situation I was in about 13 years ago. Just for curiosity’s sake, I was just wondering what other COTHers would have done about it.

I was 19 and had a summer internship in NYC, and I boarded my horse at a stable about 45 minutes away from where I was living in Manhattan. NYC traffic being what it is, I only saw her at weekends, so she was fine, but a bit of a maniac to hack and not at her fittest and most supple dressage-wise. What you would expect from a horse ridden only twice per week.

When the internship ended, I went to visit my parents for two weeks before I started university again. Parents live in Colorado. Sometime during that two week period, I phoned the BO, who had been riding the horse a bit while I was gone, just to ask how she was. BO said, “I had blood drawn and her tested for EPM.”

It should be said that the BO had a bit of an obsession with EPM, and she had been hassling me about testing my horse. I couldn’t see any reason to generate vet bills I didn’t want, so I didn’t. BO also had obsessions with lots of strange things, and liked talking about how she ‘trained’ all the well-known natural horsemanship trainers in one moment, then telling me that I must lead my quiet, well behaved horse in a stud chain the next. But oddball barn owners are par for the course!

In any case, the horse had been perfectly normal when I left New York. I asked why on earth she had been tested for EPM. Had she fallen over? Was she staggering around? It would have been nice if someone called me about this!

“No, she’s stiffer to the right than to the left.”

“But EVERY horse is stiffer to one side!” I protested

To which BO responded, “A lot more horses have EPM than are ever diagnosed.”

About a week later, the vet who did the tests, and who I’d never met in my life, phoned me up reporting that the horse was fine (ya think?) and that I owed them $100. The barn owner was one of these scary, intimidating horsewomen, who sees themselves as something of a guru, and I certainly didn’t have the chutzpah to stand up to her, so I was annoyed but quietly paid the damned vet bill. Needless to say, I was overjoyed to leave that barn the next day and take the horse and myself back to uni.

Would everyone here have just sucked it up and paid the vet bill?

Should the barn owner have been asking vets to stick needles into my horse without so much as a cursory phone call to me?

Can vets stick needles into boarded horses without contacting the owner in what clearly isn’t an emergency?

The horse in question is now 23 years old and still in full work.

[vandenbrink]

The barn owner had no business calling the vet and ordering the test and expecting you to pay for it. In your position at 19 I probably would have felt obligated to pay it but if I was in that position now, I would have paid the vet, and then subtracted $100 dollars from the next months board bill with a note.

[Bluey]

You did well to pay and move on.
“You can’t fix stupid”.

No matter what we may discuss what was proper, the vet did his work and needed to be paid and you as the owner were responsible for that bill.

What you were also responsible for is not to stay in that nutty situation, which you did, good for you.

[clanter]

did barn owner have a vested interest in the testing lab as her level of concern appears to have been bordering manic

“Can vets stick needles into boarded horses without contacting the owner in what clearly isn’t an emergency?”

At least when we had a horse in training the barn had full care and custody to be concerned with, if the trainer thought there was a problem they had full control to do what they believed was necessary… horse had her own credit card and the barn just charged the calls to her card… but were well aware that if funds were just haphazardly used horsy would loose her credit card thus no pizza for her grooms

[Caol_Ila]

No doubt if I gave Gypsum her own credit card, she’d be out buying new clothes, kegs, and all sorts!

It was a long time ago, but I think the boarding contract was fairly standard – stating the BO can bring in a vet to treat the horse in the event of emergency without my permission if I am not reachable. But neither was the case. It wasn’t an emergency and we have phones in Colorado.

There was a situation at the barn I used to board at in CO where a mare colicked, and the fruitbat owner refused to accept veterinary intervention because she didn’t believe in Western medicine. The BO was desperate to get the vet out, but vet would not treat horse unless owner expressly consented. BO told owner she would not have a suffering horse on her property, so the owner had to agree to treatment, or leave (horse was then treated for colic).

So we have one vet who will do what the BO says, in a non-emergency, without contacting HO, and another who won’t touch a colicking horse, clearly an emergency, without the owner’s consent.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8948126]

So we have one vet who will do what the BO says, in a non-emergency, without contacting HO, and another who won’t touch a colicking horse, clearly an emergency, without the owner’s consent.[/QUOTE]
The difference is that in the case of the horse with colic the owner specifically said not to treat. That is one step past not having the owner’s consent, it is the owner saying ‘No Way’ to treatment.

[Mango20]

Your BO should not have done this, and since she did without your knowledge, she should have paid the bill.

That said, at 19, I probably would have just paid the bill like you did, and it would still bother me 13 years later…

[clanter]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8948126]
No doubt if I gave Gypsum her own credit card, she’d be out buying new clothes, kegs, and all sorts!.[/QUOTE]

yes our mare was a clothes horse, overtime she had tack rooms full of stuff

This was a longtime ago also back in the early 1990s . We relied upon our trainer’s insight, if they thought something needed to be done then it was OK.

The farm’s vet was one we knew from back in our days having worked with saddlehorses so it also made our approach easier (same from farrier, I would get a copies of the billing even though our horse’s card was charged)

We had been to their farm many times and all their stock was well cared for, even the pasture herds. Our horse was there for just under over two years and nothing odd was charged, the arrangement was the best at the time for us. (We could have challenged any odd charge with the credit card issuer if we desired, then the charge would be back charged until proven correct otherwise it would have been deleted)

I guess today it would be easier to have the vet/farrier email a statement as even currently our vet’s office works that way even though we attempt to pay the vet when they are here it is easier for their system to send us an electronic statement

[clanter]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8948126]
the fruitbat owner refused to accept veterinary intervention because she didn’t believe in Western medicine. .[/QUOTE]

personally I would not have had this owner’s horse in my control as the lack of the ability to look after the horse’s welfare was restricted

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Mango20;8948159]
Your BO should not have done this, and since she did without your knowledge, she should have paid the bill.

That said, at 19, I probably would have just paid the bill like you did, and it would still bother me 13 years later…[/QUOTE]

That’s exactly what I was going to say… BTDT, did the same thing… The BO was wrong to call the vet out for testing and was wrong to expect you to pay for it as well. That is a crappy situation to be in and your BO took one too many liberties there…

I had something very similar happen when I was 21… I had just moved out of state to NY and purchased an OTTB - I was boarding him at a gorgeous facility with very subpar care (drunk/crazy fruitbat#1 BO and fruitbat#2 wannabe Clint Anderson BM): I was sucking up the ‘subpar care’ part by just taking care of him myself - to me, the indoor & amenities were worth paying the full board price, and I didn’t mind coming out every morning and night to feed and water him.

Well, I came by after work one day to find a vet I had never met before and a BM, right there with my horse in the aisle and a needle inches from horse’s neck. Me, meekly: “um, what are you doing?” Vet and Bm turn around and they’re surprised to see me: “oh hey Beowulf! We tried reaching you (lies) but all the horses need this shot now… we did everyone else at the barn, so, it’s your guy’s turn…”

We were not in an area where there was cell service, so it’s not like I could have pulled out my (then flip-phone) and searched online or call MY old vet and ask why he needed this shot… So I just conceded to letting the vet give my horse this shot to “prevent strangles”. I knew something was off, didn’t think there even was a shot to prevent strangles, and was really skeptic about how on earth you could nuke strangles if it was already in the body; but I wrongly trusted and assumed this vet that I didn’t know knew what he was talking about and was practicing because he was, well, somewhat competent and educated.

I was floored when I got the bill: the Excede was $95 and he tacked on a $175 ‘emergency’ farm call because it was on a Sunday.

The kicker is, Excede is useless without the booster/second dose (which the vet never gave) and it wouldn’t have done anything to prevent strangles in a host anyway. So I paid $270 for the incompetence of both that vet and my BM.

Needless to say, we left as soon as it became apparent it was not strangles. It still bothers me all these years later…

[ChasPonyCat]

I find that BO’s obsession with EPM really, really odd.

[2DogsFarm]

Similar sitch for me, but it was a chiro who my at-the-time trainer had out for another horse & in a fit of enthusiasm, pulled my TB out for an evaluation.
When he called me, at work, to report chiro pronounced my guy in perfect alignment, I told him TYVM, but that bill is not mine.
Then called chiro’s office to tell them who s/b billed.
Never heard another word on the subject.
But then, I was a “bit” more than 19yo at the time.

In your case I question a vet drawing blood in a non-emergent situation w/o HO’s knowledge.

I did have a vet (not my vet) treat the same horse for a lameness when I was put of the country. But that was requested by a half-boarder who offered to pay the bill.
In that case I was glad the vet treated (turned out to be an abcess) w/o my consent or guarantee of payment.

OP:
That BO sounds pushy, controlling & not anyone l’d care to pay board.
& it would probably still bother me so many years later to have been manipulated that way.

[red_mares]

I was in a slightly similar situation. My horse was boarded several states over and ended up with some issue and the vet was called, but more treatment was done than I would have like. Nothing wrong with what was done per se, just more than I would have preferred.

I paid the bill. Since I was long past 19, I also contacted the vet and LOWERED the amount of costs that could be incurred without my explicit consent. When I moved barns, I ended up changing my local contact.

I found it interesting that what my local person would authorize for my horse (when she wasn’t paying the bills) was vastly higher than what she would authorize for her own horse (when she was paying the bills).

[mvp]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8948205]
That’s exactly what I was going to say… BTDT, did the same thing… The BO was wrong to call the vet out for testing and was wrong to expect you to pay for it as well. That is a crappy situation to be in and your BO took one too many liberties there… [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would have paid the bill, too.

But! Put the shoe on the other foot: The BO sees a 19 year old kid who lives/works in NYC and sees her horse on the weekends only and then goes out of state to visit parents for two weeks.

To me, that looks like someone who has left her horse in the BO’s care and who doesn’t care to be terribly involved in its day-to-day care. I have lived in that part of NY and I have to tell you that up round Bedford and such there are lots and lots of owners who keep their horses this way. Those guys do, in fact, turn lots of the care over to the BO because they can’t come up often.

While the BO over-stepped in your case, I have been left with a question about a horse by an absentee owner enough times, that I have sympathy for the BO. I’m not interested in watching a horse do poorly on my place just because the HO has her life set up such that she doesn’t see that and goes on vacation.

Just another perspective.

[Sobriska]

I guess Im the only one that would have told the vet to call the BO and get the money from her since you did not ask him to do the test. Then would have moved immediately.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Sobriska;8948397]
I guess Im the only one that would have told the vet to call the BO and get the money from her since you did not ask him to do the test. Then would have moved immediately.[/QUOTE]

Plenty of folks would like to do that. But how many of us have the ability to burn those bridges and go somewhere else, pronto? If you have the means to do that, it’s easier to Stick It To The Man. If, OTOH, you live in a place where options are limited, you will do a lot more compromising and grudge-holding, as this thread shows. It’s a bummer, fo sho.

[fanfayre]

I would have paid the bill, but informed the vet that something like this must never happen again- that is, no non-emergency testing or treating without my personal real-time approval, and I would probably also cap the cost permitted during ‘emergency’ visits too if I couldn’t be there to ‘assist’ or approve.

[GraceLikeRain]

It is always easier to sit behind a keyboard and say “I wouldn’t pay that” than to actually handle it in person when you may be stuck at the barn.

I’ll never completely forgive a former boarder who made a bonehead decision to lead my mare along with a very dangerous gelding. Long story short my mare ended up quite hurt and needing rehab. I confronted the boarder about my bills and she came back at me that she could sue me because she fell when all hell broke loose. Sometimes you have to let things rest even if it sickens you to do so.

OP I would have paid the bill more than likely even though I’d like to think I wouldn’t. Keeping the peace at a barn is always my priority because I never want a horse to suffer because of interpersonal conflict.

[gottagrey]

a barn I used to board at had a lot of horses that got joint injections. T/BM asked me if I’d thought about injecting my horse. Um not really, he’s still pretty young. A couple of months later open vet bill, charge for $350 hock injections? Hmm.

I called the vet’s office, told them I had no knowledge nor authorized this or was it a mistake. In this instance I think it was a billing mistake.

My point is, in the OP’s situation, I would’ve called the vet and asked them about the bill, and explain I didn’t authorize this test etc. Then I would either decide to pay or confront trainer with it. The thing is, as an absentee owner, the trainer would say she was acting in the benefit of your horse blah blah. So I think in this situation you did well to go ahead and pay the $100. But should it ever happen again, call the vet, talk to trainer and then decide.

[Highflyer]

I have never as a barn worker/ manager had a vet ask for an owner’s consent to examine or treat a horse. I’ve sometimes stopped in the middle to call the owner and ask what they want to do depending on the vet recommendation (and I do ask beforehand about having the horse treated if at all possible). But the vet typically doesn’t have any idea who owns the horses and wouldn’t expect them to necessarily be involved-- some are, some we never see and rarely hear from.