In constructive criticism, the key word is constructive. I’m all for tough love, but it better be fair and not insulting. That said, I’ve had great luck and never had anyone say anything I would consider undually negative or unfair in the years I took lessons and rode with different trainers.
Caitlin
I work with teens, and am aghasted by some of the comments. It is NOT about stroking egos - it is about being a civilized human beings.
Take the 17 and 18 year olds I was talking to yesterday.
What I felt like saying:
Are you Fing KIDDING me? You STILL haven’t got your work done? WTF kind of idiot are you anyway? Are you stoned or stupid or lazy or all three? Get the fck out of here and don’t waste my time any more?
Anyone think that would have been useful or productive? Would have gotten me fired.
What I said instead is, guys, I am REALLY concerned about what you haven’t finished yet. I am going to give you the next hour to catch up and each of you has a list of what your goals are. As you get one thing done, bring it to me and tackle the next thing. I KNOW you can do this - you’ve proven it to me before, and you ARE smart enough to do it.
Did everything get done? Of course not. But, did I see progress? You betcha. Having them say screw this, I quit, benefits NOBODY. Having them know that they can come to me and ask for help, DOES.
My best teacher ever branded this into my brain: You can step on someone’s shoes, but don’t EVER take off the shine.
Dee
My own uncle told me I would never be able to ride a cutter because “your a** is too close to the ground”. Did it hurt my feelings…yeah, because I loved him and wanted him to approve of me. Was he right, yeah.
I think the worst thing I have said to my girls is " I don’t know what that was, but it was UGLY. " or “if you can’t or won’t ride the horse right, get off him now”
Students don’t need to be coddled, but abuse is not to be tolerated. As for the instructor and the behind the barn comment.:eek: oh, that person and I would have had it out right there in front of God and everybody else (and I am one that believes in confrontations in private only).
When we were pony shopping, we went to a show at a farm where a few ponies were for sale that we were interested in trying.
While her kids were on course, trainer at this farm stood at the gate and screamed at them how fbomb stupid fbomb worthless fbomb horrible rider fbomb idiotic…well, you get the picture.
We did not buy one of her ponies.
Then at another show, the very green pony we did buy had a refusal. This woman exhibited lovely sportsmanship when she said to her student and mother “that’s what they get for not buying one of our ponies”.
The look on her face was priceless when she realized we were standing right behind her.
[QUOTE=xeroxchick;5542605]
I think there is a tradition of instruction being blunt. Some of this thread sounds so friggin babyish. I mean, come on. There is a military tradition behind most English riding instruction and just grow some brass ones and suck it up. I love it that coaching is one of the last places where we can learn to be tough. Besides, what great stories.
Just smacks of the touchy-feely oh our poor feelings crap.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with blunt or strict, although I’m happier when it comes with a dose of humor. But I’ve BTDT with what’s on the other side of the “blunt/strict for self-improvement” line - being so blunt, so strict, and so arbitrary that each lesson becomes an exercise in the destruction of your self confidence, and you spend the drive to the barn crying because you want to take lessons, just not from this person. (Adult me would like to send a memo to 12-year-old me to tell Mom that this sucks so it doesn’t take her 6 months to figure out that “no, we can’t afford to buy your horses,” was apparently code for “turn into the Wicked Witch of the West and verbally abuse the hell out of my daughter.”)
Everyone’s perception of that line is going to be different; I don’t see that there’s any call to say anything on this thread is “babyish.”
[QUOTE=katarine;5543502]
Meh, often it’s in the ear of the listener. Finally I say “I’m done working with you and this horse. I’ll teach you on mine but I won’t touch this horse or teach you on this horse, period, ever again. She’s not worth it and it’s not getting better and it won’t get better. You figure out how much time and money you want to waste on shoeing her and feeding her, when that money runs out maybe then you’ll see the light.”
Did it hurt? Yep. Did it help get the mare sold? Yep. Is she a former student now, because she’s happy as a pig in poo on the RIGHT mare, a mare I paired her up with…and she doesn’t want or need lessons since they are both happy?
I’m sure someone else hearing that message would be in a million pieces that the mean lady said throw this one back. Too bad. Sometimes the truth hurts.[/QUOTE]
I was the one who posted about a similar situation EXCEPT I was a rank beginner and the green mare was the one the trainer was leasing me. Maybe the trainer should have respected me (and my money) more by providing me a suitable mount to ride on. As it is I ended up with a broken wrist/nose and horsie PTSD
yes, of COURSE they should have respected you more than she desired your money. YES.
WTH is that, a saddlebred or something?
(No, Trakehner.)
You have no natural ability for this, so I don’t need to spend as much time fixing things, they are never going to be right.
You need to work harder at your riding before you spoil that horse for his owner, she expects better.
(I’ve owned this horse since he came to this barn?)
I need you to stay in the beginner classes so that you can actually win good ribbons. It doesn’t matter what you want, you’re not going to embarass me by always placing dead last! This is a WINNING program!
You are nowhere near a good enough rider to be hauling your own horse to shows and competing him. I don’t care if you’re placing, that should just tell you how terrible the competition is. The judge doesn’t know what she’s talking about, those breed-show judges never do.
(after I won a Hunter Hack, one of the other competitors was also in this coach’s program…both of us generally placed much higher when coach WASN’T around.)
Your horse is a piece of crap. You need to stop bringing these “breed horse” nightmares into my barn. It makes me look bad.
Imagine how much better your horse would jump if you lost the weight we talked about
Coach to a 12ish year old girl on a sturdy-type Morgan in the crowded hitching ring of a rated show in the CROSS-RAIL DIVISION
You don’t deserve this horse, sell him to someone who actually knows how to ride
coincidentally, a client I hope to attract
I can’t teach you to ride better, you’re completely hopeless. You need a horse who can help you more.
Yeah, that was a little better. See how much of a difference a good saddle can make to a poor rider?
She had one of these gems about every lesson toward the end. Shows were even better.
At a dressage show my barnmate got a copy of her scorecard back, and the judge’s comment said, “Nice horse. He managed to look halfway decent despite his rider.”
My barnmate just laughed it off, but that HAD to sting a little!
The comment about my first dressage schooling show: You parents bought you a Mercedes, when they should have bought you a a Yugo.
Really people??? I said no flamming needed…the post isn’t about whinning-- it is sharing stories that each of us felt wasn’t OK.
I have my big girl panties on and can deal with criticism…etc… but NASTY is a whole different beast…
The BNT I rode with was STRICK AND DEMANDING… but cruel, nasty…nope…
Seriously…bullying in any way isn’t OK so for you untouchy feely folks enjoy the challenge of never being good enough…
Life is hard enough…REALLY???
“You’re getting fat.”
Some of these people calling themselves instructors, WTF? They sound like pretty worthless excuses for humans. I mean - yikes :eek::no:
My instructor insisted I ride her horse for a lesson so I could “get a feel” for certain movements. After following her instructions to the letter, she screams at me “You ruined my horse! It’s going to take me forever to fix her!”
In sharp contrast to the BNT who offered her students rides on her Grand Prix and PSG level horses and when we protested that we might ruin them, said “Well, what kind of trainer would I be if I couldn’t fix anything you did to my horses in 5 minutes?”
“Well at least he’s a good trail horse”. BS. I believed in my horse and myself and he’s done great! And he’s doing it right in front of her, with just me, all by myself.
[QUOTE=shiloh;8260370]
Some of these people calling themselves instructors, WTF? They sound like pretty worthless excuses for humans. I mean - yikes :eek::no:
My instructor insisted I ride her horse for a lesson so I could “get a feel” for certain movements. After following her instructions to the letter, she screams at me “You ruined my horse! It’s going to take me forever to fix her!”
In sharp contrast to the BNT who offered her students rides on her Grand Prix and PSG level horses and when we protested that we might ruin them, said “Well, what kind of trainer would I be if I couldn’t fix anything you did to my horses in 5 minutes?”[/QUOTE]
My old eventing trainer, back in the days when WB were rare even in dressage in the U.S., trained a 17.2 mostly TB appendix QH to close to pushbutton GP. She gave lessons on him on occasion, and when someone asked if she wasn’t worried he’d get “spoiled,” said, “If the aids aren’t used correctly, he ignores them.” And it was true: He wouldn’t misbehave or do anything naughty, he’d just wait for a correct aid.
[QUOTE=tothepointe;5538838]
Not terribly mean but…
“I can’t help you anymore” as I’m sitting untop lesson pony that had just dumped me into the bushes and ran back to her stall. I’m bawling my eyes out (yes I AM an adult)
I didn’t really do anything that was particularly unhelpable but said trainer didn’t really know/have patience for training beginners and tended to just throw them in at the deep end.
This was of course when I was paying her $600/mo for lessons and partial lease.
I quit about a week or two afterwards. But now I feel bitter that I was bullied out of a sport I loved by someone who showed most concern at the beginning of the month when the checks were due.[/QUOTE]
Ain’t that the truth!!
My trainer sold me a somewhat broken down x 1.40m horse to move up off of my pony onto. With enough maintenance the horse could be a fun ride but he also had a tendency to stop, not nasty just if you weren’t fully committed neither was he. My trainer constantly told me I was wrecking this amazing jumper she sold me (I was 14 years old).
Found out after from the rider that showed him up to 1.40m that he had always been a bit of a stopper and that I was doing well to consistently be making it around the courses at shows…
“Your horse is a puke!”
Nope, shes 3 y/o, recently started under saddle, in a new place for the first time and spooked when a dog ran at her.
I had a “trainer” just not show up, or call or anything, after I drove 2 hours for the lesson… 
[QUOTE=PebblesNana;5537445]
Not to my child nor their trainer:
Trainer #1
*"The pony won’t jump "(as she throws a rock at the pony’s butt WHILE THE KID IS ON HIM doing a Xrails class. At a show.
Trainer #2
*“What are you doing out there you are a complete idiot.” Yes, at a different local show.
Trainer #3 and we did ride here for a brief time:
My favorite. This trainer would have the kids pull up in the middle of a lesson (for 10-20 min) to discuss how many vertebrae are in a horse, cat etc; or why her dogs like to eat poo…It wasn’t to distract them from a bad ride, it was just what the trainer DID.
Which is why I drive 30 minutes to a trainer who can train both kid and horse and understands boundries. I have no problem with yelling, hard work, or an occasional swear word; but do not throw rocks at my horse nor call them an idiot.[/QUOTE]
At the horse? I had a trainer who would throw clods of dirt at ME on the way to the scary jump because it was MY issue and not the horse’s… It actually worked quite well so I can’t say that I minded. :lol:
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