Spin off: Owner, parent, guardian which is right and does it make a difference

[Paks]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8181594]
I see you deliberately overlook the obvious.
Placing terms like ‘parent’ on the relationship between human and animals is a small step into that direction, the chain stores reflect that in turn with their merchandize (and high prices). Heck, even Walmart has ads out targeting ‘pet parents’.

As in regard to religion, you brought it up.
Aside from cows being regarded as a reincarnated person, all other religions, as I understand them, give instructions on how to eat the animals, not how to treat them as surrogate family.[/QUOTE]Direction to where? If you mean ridiculous outfits sorry doesn’t hold I didn’t dress my human kids in ridiculous outfits why would I dress my pets in them Newsflash not every parent puts their kids in toddlers and tiaras contests. Do I feel as strong an emotional connection with my pets as I do my kids no. I’ve had both die and I know the difference. If guardian didn’t sound so pretentious I’d prefer that.

Yeah I brought it up not sure what your point is on that I don’t believe I denied bringing it up.

And since you have exhibited your ignorance and prejudice on religions that I am guessing are other than your own. I’d prefer not to discuss it with you.

[Coanteen]

Last night I watched a fascinating doc on dogs and their owners and the resulting neighbourhood clashes (around off-leash dogs in parks, or on beaches chasing migratory birds, etc). It had a lot about the US because… it’s the US, and especially concentrated on NYC and San Fran, but because it was a Canadian doc it dealt with some clashes in Canadian cities. Fights over off-leash parks can apparently lead to long term neighbourhood cold wars, as shown in a segment about a failed park in a Toronto neighbourhood.

Pretty fascinating, esp the speed in which dogs became pseudo-kids in the culture. Not that 30 or 40 yrs ago they were chopped liver, but the terminology changes around them and their owners, the fight for their “rights” to go anywhere and also to be off leash, even the influence on things like mayoral or other city rep races in some places, it’s a huge change. And a recent change.

One owner (who considers herself a mommie) made a very sad and disheartening comment in a segment about dogs being illegally off leash in a park where herons nest. “The birds don’t pay taxes, and we do.”

[beowulf]

umm… this is easy… i’m the cat’s bitch, the dogs’ person, and the horse’s food dispensor… no other titles are accurate, really.

[Countrywood]

Imo, due to more childless people as well as the increasing stress of modern society, and appreciation of animals feelings/emotions, people tend to treat pets more as family members , sleep in the bed, bring them places etc (dogs used to live in dog houses outside anyone remember that?)

Which is a good thing, except when carried too far…imo putting dogs in outfits, baby carriages as well as breeding down for small size can becomes borderline abusive to the dog. Some small dogs are carried everywhere …dogs don’t need pampering like a baby they need to live like a dog, run around, be with other dogs, roll in mud , etc.

[toady123]

Well this thread has taken a rather odd turn.

At the end of the day, it’s the treatment of the animal that matters, not a label attached to it. If I have a choice, I am an owner. Not a parent, guardian, etc. Do I care if someone calls me that? Not really. Life is too short to get worked up over this stuff.

On a practical level, not tech, groomer etc is going to call and actually say “your property is ready” or “it is ready”. They are going to say “Fluffy is ready” or “your dog” is ready. But, if they did call it ‘it’ would I care? Again, not really.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Paks;8181609]
Direction to where? If you mean ridiculous outfits sorry doesn’t hold I didn’t dress my human kids in ridiculous outfits why would I dress my pets in them Newsflash not every parent puts their kids in toddlers and tiaras contests. Do I feel as strong an emotional connection with my pets as I do my kids no. I’ve had both die and I know the difference. If guardian didn’t sound so pretentious I’d prefer that.

Yeah I brought it up not sure what your point is on that I don’t believe I denied bringing it up.

And since you have exhibited your ignorance and prejudice on religions that I am guessing are other than your own. I’d prefer not to discuss it with you.[/QUOTE]

Holy Flying Fruit Bat.
Rude much?!

[Paks]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8181947]
Holy Flying Fruit Bat.
Rude much?![/QUOTE]Only to bigots. Obviously you have no idea how offensive your statement was, which is typical of most bigots.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Paks;8181961]
Only to bigots. Obviously you have no idea how offensive your statement was, which is typical of most bigots.[/QUOTE]

You are projecting.
But at least you finally show your true colors.

Carry on.

[cloudyandcallie]

I don’t really care what others call my animals. My animals know they are family members. All started by my father having 2 llewellyn setters who were my brothers…and who got presents and birthday parties and cakes. LOL, the baker told my uncle when he stopped by to pick up Dan’s cake on his 6th birthday, after picking my cousin and me up from ballet class, that Dan must be in first grade now. My uncle told him Dan was a bird dog. Not to mention that the dog got “liver hunts” when we got easter egg hunts at Easter. Placed in foil in my father’s huge prize winning camellias.

As for religion, since I am episcopalian and my horses are Lutheran, we really don’t care what others think about religion and reincarnation. Live and let live. Or live and let die.

As for the valuing of human life and animal life, well, I dealt with bad people for over 32 years in my (now retired) profession, and I’ve seen so many cold blooded killers who didn’t value human life, much less animal life, that I don’t tell people that it is wrong to love animals more than humans.

As we episcopalians believe, do whatever you want to with consenting adults and don’t hurt animals or children or old people.

This thread is disturbing in personal attacks. I have atheist friends, agnostic friends, and religious friends. All of whom don’t attack others.

[wireweiners]

[QUOTE=red mares;8181559]
In my mind that makes you one mighty small person. There are many evil people out there, but to say you would save a dog before a person is reprehensible.[/QUOTE]

Well then just call me Tiny. I personally know of several drug dealing pimps who use drugs to lure very young girls into prostitution and drug running. Hell yeah, I’d save my sweet kitties or dogs or even the snake and the frog before I’d save one of their sorry, evil asses. If that makes me small, well I don’t care.

[LauraKY]

Who cares? I’m serious, why would anyone care if someone called themselves an owner, guardian or parent? It’s just a word. Of course we’re all hung on on the word marriage so I guess it’s to be expected. Don’t sweat the small stuff.

[D_BaldStockings]

Ownership of property has legal rights and responsibilities attached to it.

Ownership gives me the right to dispute damage done to my property by others and limits the rights of others to use my property as THEY see fit.

I would consider a groomer a guardian of my animal during it’s time at the groomers.
-An assumption of responsibility of care WITHOUT the rights of an owner to contract for veterinary care, make decisions about neutering, feed supplied, medicating other than as directed by the owner, gifting or adopting out my property to someone passing by who ‘loved’ the animal, etc.

Guardianship of pets is not yet legal in most areas.
Essentially guardianship implies a ‘higher ownership’ of life. For humans that would be achieving self-government and adult responsibility for actions.

For humans unable to care for themselves guess who takes over when guardians die? The State is the ultimate decision-maker. And we have welfare, social security, job programs, free education, assisted health care, etc.

None of those exist for animals. They are paid for and the responsibility of their owners.

What ultimately happens to animals that end up on the States expense rolls?
The State becomes owner and sells them or euthanizes them.

Not what happens to humans.

No religion involved here anywhere.

An owned companion is a safer companion than one with a guardian.
Care for an animal has historically been higher for valued animals (money) then cheap or free animals. if you want to claim a ‘religion of Capitalism’ go ahead.

Reality is that the expensive animal is much less likely to be dumped at the end of summer vacation or School term. And more likely to have a very pissed off breeder who will rehab it and place it appropriately.

It is completely possible to love one’s property, and to receive affection and love from owned animals. That is the right way to do it.

[PaintPony]

I used to work at Petsmart and we were required to call people “pet parents”. :rolleyes: I wanted to barf every time I said it!

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=Paks;8178498]
Okay it that is too big a hypothetical How a bout it is ready to be picked up. basically whatever your mind ca n hand that your dog or cat is thought of as a thing.[/QUOTE]

This is the post I am not comfortable with. This post implies ownership relegates your animal to thing-hood.

No.
Ownership protects your animal under your status as a human who owns property. Owned dogs are treated with a certain reticence and are considered off-limits - by those who would dispose of feral animals as nuisances without another thought.

Feral dogs and cats are often killed outright as they cross people’s property. Humans, not so much.

As to the arranged marriage; last time I checked animals were not married but mated to each other by their owners, with no further obligation to the offspring by the semen donor than the act itself.

Arranged human marriages are often for family alliance, property merger, to ensure lifetime care of the (usually female) spouse and their offspring.

Apples to apartment buildings. No basis for comparison.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=Paks;8177609]
Another way to look at it. How would you feel if your vet or groomer called to say your property was ready now.[/QUOTE]

Equally, or perhaps a bit less weirded out if they called and said my “furbaby” or my “fur kid” was ready :dead:

I am of the “Owner” camp.

I have no kids, I am no one’s mommy.

[RaeHughes]

I am “Mum” to my own animals and “Munty” to my flat mate’s animals. At the vet clinic - as my name is on the account - I am the owner or the care-giver